overpair in a 6-way pot: FPS or solid?

[waffle]

UTG is solid-ish (as solid as an open limper can be), rest are unknown but def. not good from the few hands I've seen. Do you like?

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG calls, MP calls, CO calls, Button calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, BB calls, UTG calls, MP calls, CO calls, Button calls.

Flop: (12 SB) 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 4/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(6 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, UTG folds, MP calls, CO folds, Button folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (7.50 BB) 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises</font>, MP calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, BB calls, MP calls.

River: (16.50 BB) 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB calls, MP calls.

Final Pot: 19.50 BB

[luckyharr]

[ QUOTE ]
SB is solid, rest are unknown but def. not good from the few hands I've seen. Do you like?

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm sorry but did you mean to provide a read of yourself as solid?

[waffle]

no, accident. i edited the op

[baronzeus]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
SB is solid, rest are unknown but def. not good from the few hands I've seen. Do you like?

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm sorry but did you mean to provide a read of yourself as solid?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm gonna start giving reads on myself too /images/graemlins/grin.gif

BTW, it's fine if you can get BB to raise you on the turn. I usually go for bet-raise on the flop then check-raise on the turn, or bet-raise-3bet on the flop and bet bet on the other two streets.

Oh well. FPS is cute sometimes.

[Catt]

Worked out well, but I vote FPS.

[luckyharr]

I don't get the flop check at all. It makes some sense if you check raise the field on the flop, or to set up a turn check raise. Bet the flop though. Mainly, you don't want to give lone Aces and Kings a free look at the turn, and unless someone has a J, 4, or middle pocket pair, this one could get checked through.

[waffle]

[ QUOTE ]
I usually go for bet-raise on the flop then check-raise on the turn, or bet-raise-3bet on the flop and bet bet on the other two streets.

Oh well. FPS is cute sometimes.

[/ QUOTE ]

I usually go for bet/3bet on flop and then bet bet.

My problem with that is that while I am usually forcing my opponents to make a mistake by putting in 3 SB on the flop w/ a equity disadvantage, they are getting excellent odds on the turn when I bet (first guy gets immediate odds of 11.5:1 calling my turn bet, and the others get even better odds (if 3 players called the flop for 3 bets)), making it correct to draw to 5 outers and less - most of the times, we are only going 1 bet on the turn when I'm ahead.

I was looking for a way to give hands with 5 and less outs incorrect odds to see the river.. I succeeded by giving MP poor odds. The pot is so large on the flop that I can't protect my hand - I can't give them incorrect odds to see the turn.

Do you see what I am getting at? I usually pump away when I have an equity edge on this flop, but I thought I'd try something different. Who can help me evaluate the merit of this play?

[aK13]

I think flop check sucks a nut. What are you doing if it comes back bet/raised?

What's your plan if you're capped on the turn?

[kahntrutahn]

I don't think you can protect your hand... period...

Ram and Jam...

[luckyharr]

[ QUOTE ]
I was looking for a way to give hands with 5 and less outs incorrect odds to see the river

[/ QUOTE ]

If you are ahead, what kind of hands have an immediate 5 outs against you with this board? You counterfeit a lot of hand's 2 pair outs. The majority of likely hands for your opponent's here have zero, 2, or 3 immediate outs. Just figure out how to get as many bets in as possible until it's pretty clear someone has a four.

Without a paired board, I think it is difficult to protect your hand without some notion of where the bet is going to come from. In my opinion, giving up your initiative in this hand is not worth the off-chance that you might get an opportunity to confront multiple players with two bets.

[waffle]

fair enough. no 5 outers. plus the hands with 3 outs (there are a lot of these, but they will probably be hosed on the turn anyway). this was a bad time to try this play.

[waffle]

[ QUOTE ]
I think flop check sucks a nut. What are you doing if it comes back bet/raised?

[/ QUOTE ]

3bet if i can force any flop players to face 3 cold, otherwise call and either bet/3bet (maybe bet/call) or c/r turn depending upon the position of the last aggressor.

my reasons for this are explained in an earlier post (it's an attempt to give players incorrect odds to see the river - at the cost of not exploiting my equity on the flop). but now i think it's a terrible play because of the paired board. fwiw, i very rarely do something like this, but a 6bb pot on the flop with 6 players in it was cause for alarm for me.

i thought the chance of the flop being checked through to be essentially nil.

[ QUOTE ]
What's your plan if you're capped on the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

if bb caps and mp drops out, on a call down (1 more bet on turn and river) i'm getting about 1:9 effective odds - i'll river a set 4.4% of the time, meaning BB will have to have a worse hand that doesn't river me 5.6% of the time for a call down to be ok.

[Catt]

[ QUOTE ]
Do you see what I am getting at? I usually pump away when I have an equity edge on this flop, but I thought I'd try something different. Who can help me evaluate the merit of this play?

[/ QUOTE ]

Your attempt at offering incorrect odds on the turn to one or more players requires the following parlay: (1) someone in EP decides to bet this flop after the PFR checks it; (2) one or more callers call the EP player's bet and see the turn; (3) the PFR now donks the turn on a total blank, and the flop bettor in EP still chooses to raise it rather than call or fold. You have no indication where, if at all, a flop bet will come from; and even less indication of whether or not a flop bettor would choose to raise your turn donk. This is a real longshot parlay, all for the effort of folding a hand with a few outs, and doing it on a paired flop means the flop was even less likely to hit someone (giving them several outs) than a non-paired flop. In exchange for this longshot, you scarafice value on the flop.

[MarkD]

I don't like it and prefer to play this simply. Bet it.

I think this is FPS.

[clownshoes]

Checking the flop? Betting out on the turn? What?

Just bet and raise the flop.

[TheMetetron]

FPS all the way