Where do you accumulate most of your chips?

This might help my game, but other than that it is an interesting poll. After you vote, if you could post the reason for your vote that would be nice.

[KramerTM]

If anyone is not choosing "On the Bubble," then you are playing incorrectly.

[Freudian]

[ QUOTE ]
If anyone is not choosing "On the Bubble," then you are playing incorrectly.

[/ QUOTE ]

Or is a better level 4-5 player than most others here.

[johnnybeef]

when or how you accumulate all of the chips is not as important as if you accumulate all of the chips. to go out and say to your self that this is when im going to accumulate would be selling yourself short, as sometimes there are oppertunities early and sometimes there are oppertunities late. a good player will be able to adapt to the situation at hand. i have had tournaments where i got big early and dominated the entire sng, and likewise, i have had tourneys where i struggle to get 4 handed, but win a few hands when the blinds are big, and then take it down once it gets heads up.

[johnnybeef]

[ QUOTE ]
If anyone is not choosing "On the Bubble," then you are playing incorrectly.

[/ QUOTE ]

this is exactly the close minded attitude that i used to have that was costing me money.

[KramerTM]

[ QUOTE ]
when or how you accumulate all of the chips is not as important as if you accumulate all of the chips. to go out and say to your self that this is when im going to accumulate would be selling yourself short, as sometimes there are oppertunities early and sometimes there are oppertunities late. a good player will be able to adapt to the situation at hand. i have had tournaments where i got big early and dominated the entire sng, and likewise, i have had tourneys where i struggle to get 4 handed, but win a few hands when the blinds are big, and then take it down once it gets heads up.

[/ QUOTE ]

Regardless, on average, you will accumulate more chips late stealing blinds than you will picking up hands in the early levels. It's not close-minded, it's true.

[Nottom]

Can I vote for ITM?

According to Pokertracker over my bad run of 174 SNGs this month:
7-10: +523 Chips
5-6: +8,905 Chips
4: -25,778 Chips /images/graemlins/crazy.gif
ITM: +42,350 Chips


Over all my numbers look like this over 561 109s:
7-10: +74,441
5-6: +6,063
Bubble: -13,108
ITM: +144,604


So I guess of the choices I would have to say from a strict numbers standpoint 7-10. (Yeah I clicked on bubble before I actually thought about it !!!)

I know people want to think the bubble is right but the fact is you lose all your chips on the bubble much more often than you double up.

[pooh74]

[ QUOTE ]
when or how you accumulate all of the chips is not as important as if you accumulate all of the chips. to go out and say to your self that this is when im going to accumulate would be selling yourself short, as sometimes there are oppertunities early and sometimes there are oppertunities late. a good player will be able to adapt to the situation at hand. i have had tournaments where i got big early and dominated the entire sng, and likewise, i have had tourneys where i struggle to get 4 handed, but win a few hands when the blinds are big, and then take it down once it gets heads up.

[/ QUOTE ]

ITM is correct (as Nottom stated below). Not given that choice, the bubble may not be YOUR correct answer, but if it is not, I dont see you winning SNGs as much or more than a player who accumlates more chips as time goes on. In order for your answer to be true, you have to be either:

1. On an incredible run getting great hands PF or

2. Getting all-in in close situations early and winning more than you should be.

In either case, that can't last

I don't care how good one's post flop skills are, there is simply no way it can surpass bubble blind stealing and getting all in with the best of it when the blinds are high relative to the stacks.

Im not trying to say that there is only one correct way to play, it just seems from experience that chip accumulation MUST occur more as t gets greater.

[lacky]

that all depends on how you play in the early levels

[lacky]

hmmm, by who's definition. I've played thousands of them, my ROI is in the good to expert range, and I didn't pick your answer.

Steve

[Nottom]

I guess the question really comes down to what you really mean by "accumulate".

I lose a lot less chips during 7-10 handed play than I do 4-6 handed. And just by normal playing I usually add a few hunderd chips in the process of not busting out. Its not a lot, but its a nice % of my stack and since I'm not losing chips as often it adds up.

On the other hand when I am on the bubble I usually have a 2000-3000 stack and lose all if it a good 25-30% of the time, which really hurts the bottom line.

[johnnybeef]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
when or how you accumulate all of the chips is not as important as if you accumulate all of the chips. to go out and say to your self that this is when im going to accumulate would be selling yourself short, as sometimes there are oppertunities early and sometimes there are oppertunities late. a good player will be able to adapt to the situation at hand. i have had tournaments where i got big early and dominated the entire sng, and likewise, i have had tourneys where i struggle to get 4 handed, but win a few hands when the blinds are big, and then take it down once it gets heads up.

[/ QUOTE ]

ITM is correct (as Nottom stated below). Not given that choice, the bubble may not be YOUR correct answer, but if it is not, I dont see you winning SNGs as much or more than a player who accumlates more chips as time goes on. In order for your answer to be true, you have to be either:

1. On an incredible run getting great hands PF or

2. Getting all-in in close situations early and winning more than you should be.

In either case, that can't last

I don't care how good one's post flop skills are, there is simply no way it can surpass bubble blind stealing and getting all in with the best of it when the blinds are high relative to the stacks.

Im not trying to say that there is only one correct way to play, it just seems from experience that chip accumulation MUST occur more as t gets greater.

[/ QUOTE ]

perhaps i didnt write my earlier response with as much care as i usually do....the point that i was trying to make was that it is absolutely silly to limit yourself to accumulating chips on the bubble. your job in any tournament is to accumulate all of the chips. while it is easier to do when the blinds are big, you should not limit yourself to oppertunities "on the bubble"

[pooh74]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
when or how you accumulate all of the chips is not as important as if you accumulate all of the chips. to go out and say to your self that this is when im going to accumulate would be selling yourself short, as sometimes there are oppertunities early and sometimes there are oppertunities late. a good player will be able to adapt to the situation at hand. i have had tournaments where i got big early and dominated the entire sng, and likewise, i have had tourneys where i struggle to get 4 handed, but win a few hands when the blinds are big, and then take it down once it gets heads up.

[/ QUOTE ]

ITM is correct (as Nottom stated below). Not given that choice, the bubble may not be YOUR correct answer, but if it is not, I dont see you winning SNGs as much or more than a player who accumlates more chips as time goes on. In order for your answer to be true, you have to be either:

1. On an incredible run getting great hands PF or

2. Getting all-in in close situations early and winning more than you should be.

In either case, that can't last

I don't care how good one's post flop skills are, there is simply no way it can surpass bubble blind stealing and getting all in with the best of it when the blinds are high relative to the stacks.

Im not trying to say that there is only one correct way to play, it just seems from experience that chip accumulation MUST occur more as t gets greater.

[/ QUOTE ]

perhaps i didnt write my earlier response with as much care as i usually do....the point that i was trying to make was that it is absolutely silly to limit yourself to accumulating chips on the bubble. your job in any tournament is to accumulate all of the chips. while it is easier to do when the blinds are big, you should not limit yourself to oppertunities "on the bubble"

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree completely, which makes me think I misunderstood earlier.

I think a better way of looking at this question is to say that I accumulate more overall chips later, but accululate more chips relative to blinds earlier. Which is to say, just by letting someone bust out or by doubling up when I limped and hit a set is a bigger jump.

doubling up when the blinds are 20 and the same when the blinds are 400 are two different beasts and cannot be considered without the variable of blind size.

[brettthomas]

Sometimes i will double up early (when I have a premium hand and someone plays back), but more often it is mid levels when I start getting aggressive.

I guess I should have invluded a levels poll as well so we could cross refrence between players and blinds. However my goal for this thread is to question my play recently.

Usually I play REAL tight until the bubble. On the bubble I push Q7+, K6+, Ax, and it was working... until my luckbox broke and I lost several bubbles in a row.

I am curious as to how most of you play levl 4-6 with 6 players left. Should I be pushing AJ, A10 here? Should I also be pushing KQ, KJs?

My mid-game really needs work /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Nottom]

[ QUOTE ]

I am curious as to how most of you play levl 4-6 with 6 players left. Should I be pushing AJ, A10 here? Should I also be pushing KQ, KJs?


[/ QUOTE ]

It depends, but i'd guess you are playing too tight on the pre-bubble.

[Isura]

[ QUOTE ]

Usually I play REAL tight until the bubble. On the bubble I push Q7+, K6+, Ax, and it was working... until my luckbox broke and I lost several bubbles in a row.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are most probably playing incorrectly. .

[Uppercut]

[ QUOTE ]
I am curious as to how most of you play level 4-6 with 6 players left. Should I be pushing AJ, A10 here? Should I also be pushing KQ, KJs?

[/ QUOTE ]

It all depends on stack sizes, position, and previous action. If I am short-stacked and first in, I push all these hands. If I have a monster stack, I raise 3xBB first in. If there is a raise and reraise in front of me, I fold. It seems like you are looking for a formula to follow here, but there are too many variables for a "one size fits all occasions" approach.