How to fight paranoia - and a request for book advice

Another newbie question - I have trouble fighting the naging feeling that people are bluffing. I mean it's not totally paranoia, I've caught some doing it, but it seems that I lose often because of thinking that they keep calling with a pair, or two at best, while I have three of a kind, only to find that they were honestly (but maybe not very agressively) playing a straight or a full house... Any pointers on how to deal with this paranoia? If it matters (I guess it does) we are talking absolute beginner playing 0.01/0.02 holdem

Regarding the books - I have Winning Low-Level Holdem and Holdem for Advanced Players. Should I be getting SSH? Holdem for Advanced Players seems to be rather useless to me as contrary to what I expected from many books (on other subjects) with the words "Advanced" in their title - this one really seems to be for Andvanced players only!

[ QUOTE ]
Another newbie question - I have trouble fighting the naging feeling that people are bluffing. I mean it's not totally paranoia, I've caught some doing it, but it seems that I lose often because of thinking that they keep calling with a pair, or two at best, while I have three of a kind, only to find that they were honestly (but maybe not very agressively) playing a straight or a full house... Any pointers on how to deal with this paranoia? If it matters (I guess it does) we are talking absolute beginner playing 0.01/0.02 holdem

Regarding the books - I have Winning Low-Level Holdem and Holdem for Advanced Players. Should I be getting SSH? Holdem for Advanced Players seems to be rather useless to me as contrary to what I expected from many books (on other subjects) with the words "Advanced" in their title - this one really seems to be for Andvanced players only!

[/ QUOTE ]

The only advice i can give is that with hands that you suspect you MIGHT(not crap hands, just 2nd best hands), You should probably keep the player on a leash, and not do a lot of bet or raising. This is probably weak, but i find that it keeps your losses lower those one or two times a session that it happens.

[littlebu]

Pick up Getting started in Holdem then after you read that 2-3 times get SSHE

[AASooted]

[ QUOTE ]
Another newbie question - I have trouble fighting the naging feeling that people are bluffing. I mean it's not totally paranoia, I've caught some doing it, but it seems that I lose often because of thinking that they keep calling with a pair, or two at best, while I have three of a kind, only to find that they were honestly (but maybe not very agressively) playing a straight or a full house... Any pointers on how to deal with this paranoia?

[/ QUOTE ]

I second the recommendation for Small-Stakes Hold 'Em.

I'm not sure what to tell you about being bluffed. It took me a while, but I'm finally over worrying about it. I lost a lot of money early on calling down guys because they'd shown down with junk before, and I thought they were bluffing. The thing is, even habitual bluffers get dealt good hands. What I learned is that I can be more liberal in the range of hands I assign to some opponents, thus making a few more calls against them, but I still have to have something. Let them bluff me out of a hand early -- I won't lose much in that hand, and they'll bluff themselves into big trouble when I do have a hand. Your goal should be to win money, not pots.

As far as your three of a kind losing to bigger hands, sometimes that happens. You need to get used to it. If you're unsure about some of them post the hands, and people will be happy to help you figure out if you played the hand correctly. Keep in mind that it's absolutely possible to play the hand perfectly and still lose the pot. You analyze the situation and choose the action that will win you the most money on average. Sometimes someone gets a straight against your three of a kind. Sometimes your three of a kind improves to four of a kind or a full house.

[ QUOTE ]
Another newbie question - I have trouble fighting the naging feeling that people are bluffing. I mean it's not totally paranoia, I've caught some doing it, but it seems that I lose often because of thinking that they keep calling with a pair, or two at best, while I have three of a kind, only to find that they were honestly (but maybe not very agressively) playing a straight or a full house... Any pointers on how to deal with this paranoia? If it matters (I guess it does) we are talking absolute beginner playing 0.01/0.02 holdem

Regarding the books - I have Winning Low-Level Holdem and Holdem for Advanced Players. Should I be getting SSH? Holdem for Advanced Players seems to be rather useless to me as contrary to what I expected from many books (on other subjects) with the words "Advanced" in their title - this one really seems to be for Andvanced players only!

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm a newbie myself, but I'll toss in my advice anyway.

One thing that can often help in figuring out if someone is bluffing is paying attention to what sort of player they are. If they're a maniac, if they are playing every hand (which means they have crap cards most of the time) and are constantly raising, their raises mean nothing and you want to stay in and take their money when your pair of kings beats their J4 offsuit.

If they're a player who normally is passive, checking/calling or folding, and suddenly they wake up and raise, you're looking at someone with a good hand.

A program like Pokertracker is good for keeping track of what sort of opponent they are, you might want to look into that.

And I recommend Small Stakes Hold'em.

[SheridanCat]

For books, in order:

Getting Started In Hold'em
Small Stakes Hold'em
Theory Of Poker
Inside The Poker Mind
Hold'em Poker For Advanced Players

Also, Improve Your Poker is very worthwhile.

Now, to the paranoia question.

When you get to the river headsup you have to give a little thought to whether you should call a bet or not.

First, have in mind an idea of what the odds are your opponent has you beat. You'll need to be concentrating throughout the hand because you're going to be formulating an opinion on what he has based on how he has played.

Second, compare the amount in the pot to the amount you have to call to arrive at pot odds.

If the pot odds are equal to or greater than your estimated odds in the first step, call. If not, fold.

Now, hopefully you'll be paying so much attention to putting your opponent(s) on a range of hands and figuring the odds on the end that you'll forget to be paranoid or curious and make what you feel is the right play.

This roughly correlates to "if the pot is large call" - but a little more refined. Obviously, you can't call with a stone bluff.

Perhaps you should read Inside The Poker Mind earlier than I listed it above.

Good luck,

T

[hotsauce615]

Reread Lee Jones' winning low limit hold em I reccomend to , and I also reccomend Hilger's book, Internet Texas Hold em, only because it has my favorite pre flop charts along with a good explaination of concepts like pot odds and positions etc etc, that a beginner would benefit from.

In terms of worrying about bluffs, Lee Jones will have you identifying the nuts on each hand and making sure you have the odds to call it, the bluff becomes a non factor.

[AKQJ10]

Just to confirm, are you talking about $0.01/0.02 limit hold 'em? From the books you mention it sounds like you are. But I can't tell for sure from this post or your previous one.

Phil Gordon said it best: if you never get bluffed out, then you're calling too much.
Doyle Brunson said getting bluffed is inevitable in a tough game, but it's what happens after that determines your success. If you go on tilt or play scared, you compound the loss.
After watching how often pros are successfully bluffed on TV, I felt better about letting go some of my hands. In the long run, you'll make more money from people who bluff too much when you have lock hands than you will lose to them when you have marginal hands.

[Steve00007]

[ QUOTE ]
Another newbie question - I have trouble fighting the naging feeling that people are bluffing. I mean it's not totally paranoia, I've caught some doing it, but it seems that I lose often because of thinking that they keep calling with a pair, or two at best, while I have three of a kind, only to find that they were honestly (but maybe not very agressively) playing a straight or a full house... Any pointers on how to deal with this paranoia? If it matters (I guess it does) we are talking absolute beginner playing 0.01/0.02 holdem

Regarding the books - I have Winning Low-Level Holdem and Holdem for Advanced Players. Should I be getting SSH? Holdem for Advanced Players seems to be rather useless to me as contrary to what I expected from many books (on other subjects) with the words "Advanced" in their title - this one really seems to be for Andvanced players only!

[/ QUOTE ]

If you're playing at that level, then Hold'em for Advanced Players won't help you as much. Hold'em for Advanced Players is more helpful if you want to play against tough competition. If you're playing at the beginner level, Small Stakes Hold'em is a better book.

However, there are some people who find the Small Stakes Hold'em book to be difficult and confusing, so it may be helpful to start off with another book first. SSHE is NOT a beginners book. It's not just me that says that; the book itself will say that it's not a beginners book.

I haven't read Getting Started in Hold'em, but I glanced through it for about 15-20 minutes once, and it did seem like a great book to read if you plan on reading Small Stakes Hold'em eventually. The section on limit hold'em is short (not much longer than 100 pages), so it shouldn't take too long to learn the stuff in there, and the book is cheaper than most other poker books.

If you are at the beginning level, and you want to read SSHE, it's probably a great idea to start off with GSIH first.

[oneeye13]

weed is bad to fight paranoia

[kleos]

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=462860&page=0&view=collap sed&sb=7&o=14&fpart=1

[AKQJ10]

Please learn to use the [URL] tag instead of running all posts off the right side of the screen.

Many thanks to everybody for your time. It's a lot of food for thought.

The funny thing about Ed Miller's article is that I've actually read it, but kinda filed it away under 'gonna need some day when I alrady play better'. Is it suitable for the beginners?

Still I'm a bit unsure - how given the board do I calculate the possibility that the other guy has say a straight or better? I could calculate it for an imaginary "random" player, who does not look at his cards, but what to do with a real person? I realize this is complicated, but maybe some links or articles?

The game I'm playing ATM is 0.02/0.04 Limit Hold'em at Pokerstars. (BTW - is it ok for the beginner? Recommendations on something other to try? I'm mostly not talking bonuses here, but learning how to play)

The 0.01/0.02 was a Freudian slip as it was a No-Limit game that I tried once and got myself beaten for having no idea what I was doing. I'd actually like to try it again if I find something introductory on No-Limit.

At the moment I've ordered both "Getting Started In Hold'em"
and "Small Stakes Hold'em". Unfortunately can't say I'm paying for them from my winnings - I'm barely breaking even at the lowest limit of 0.02/0.04 /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[AKQJ10]

[ QUOTE ]
Still I'm a bit unsure - how given the board do I calculate the possibility that the other guy has say a straight or better? I could calculate it for an imaginary "random" player, who does not look at his cards, but what to do with a real person? I realize this is complicated, but maybe some links or articles?

[/ QUOTE ]

Great question.

Unfortunately, I don't know of any "silver bullet" answer; a lot of it is just experience. I can say that in general, don't assume a straight, flush, full house is out there unless you have reason to think so. It's far more common for new players to lose bets by imagining monsters under the bed than to waste bets because someone turned or rivered a monster and raises.

That said, over time you just improve your judgement. The other day at the Showboat in AC in a $3/6 game, I flopped a nut straight (QT8 to my J9). By the river it was heads up between an older rock-type and me; I was acting after him. He had check-called the turn (an ace), but the river was another ten and he bet into me. I raised, figuring he could have made trips. Doh! He showed down tens full of eights. (He didn't reraise, fearing I had aces full.) I should have known that a player like that would never bet into me with less than a boat.

But that's rare -- online, without these visual cues and watching his play for a while, I would raise that without a second thought and call it bad luck the boat was out against me.

So the point is, you just learn with experience. Sadly there's no substitute.

[kleos]

The OP needs to be aware that you cannot play such hands weaker just becasue he gets sucked out, especially at the 2/4c tables. Stay aggressive.

[AKQJ10]

[ QUOTE ]
The game I'm playing ATM is 0.02/0.04 Limit Hold'em at Pokerstars. (BTW - is it ok for the beginner? Recommendations on something other to try? I'm mostly not talking bonuses here, but learning how to play)

[/ QUOTE ]

I've not played at Stars, but I might suggest changing to Pacific just based on Stars' rep for tougher play. I would think even at Stars the 2c/4c should be pretty fishy, but you never know when you might get a table full of serious newbies. I can definitely say that Pacific 5c/10c will get you used to the high-EV, high-variance game that you can expect in any low-limit game at a public cardroom, or any micro-limit game as you're working your way up.

On average how many are seeing each flop at Stars 2c?

[kleos]

Rarely below 50+% if ever. Never seen a full table have over 70% in a the few days i've been playing.

Maybe the weekend it gets high, though I havent played it yet.