What's A Good NL Cash Game Book?

[IggyWH]

Just like the title says, what's a good NL cash game book? Sorry, I know this question has been answered 1000000 times in this forum but I must not have been searching for the correct terms.

I need work on my preflop play and MAYBE a little postflop work. This week will be slow at work so figure I can stop by B&N during lunch tomorrow and pickup a book.

Thanks,
Iggy!

[OrianasDaad]

I think HoH would be good, although it is primarily focused on tournaments. It's like always being "in the green zone".

With a grain of salt, though. I'm not a NL cash game player.

[IggyWH]

[ QUOTE ]
I think HoH would be good, although it is primarily focused on tournaments. It's like always being "in the green zone".

With a grain of salt, though. I'm not a NL cash game player.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've read Vol 1 and plan on getting Vol 2 soon, but they are for tournaments and can't exactly use most of the info for cash games.

I suck at tournaments but HOH is a very enjoyable read.

[Stew]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think HoH would be good, although it is primarily focused on tournaments. It's like always being "in the green zone".

With a grain of salt, though. I'm not a NL cash game player.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've read Vol 1 and plan on getting Vol 2 soon, but they are for tournaments and can't exactly use most of the info for cash games.

I suck at tournaments but HOH is a very enjoyable read.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, all of Volume I translates very well to NL Cash games, you might want to re-read it and re-evaluate your game as you do.

HOH is very good, just keep in mind that you can always rebuy. I also think Ciaffone / Ruban book is excellent -- "Pot Limit and No Limit."

[Malachii]

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Sorry, I know this question has been answered 1000000 times in this forum but I must not have been searching for the correct terms.

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/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[Bartman387]

I would tend to agree with what others have said, that HOH1 translates very well to cash games. Besides that I'm not sure there is much out there besides super system.

But dont fret, Sklansky and Miller have a NL cash game book coming out in the fall!!!

[punter11235]

Reuben/Ciaffone potlimit&nolimit poker is the best book available in my opinion.

[Ghazban]

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Reuben/Ciaffone potlimit&nolimit poker is the best book available in my opinion.

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I agree.

[benkahuna]

There's also a section on NL in Hellmuth's Play Poker Like the Pros, providing a number of examples of strategies one can use, but I get the sense that he's holding back a big on it.

There's the classic section in Super System (1) that is reproduced almost word for word in Super System 2 and Johnny Chan has a short (but useful) section in Play Poker Like Johnny Chan.

These books do not do a great job of providing strategy at lower limits (I'd classify these as below 5-10 no limit). If you expect a wider range of starting hands and expect more players to call pot sized bets facing pot odds of 3:1 or worse then you'll be in better shape. I think you need to make an adjustment in play like that in SSHE, going for more hands with good implied odds and ditching weaker 2 to broadway type hands starting hands. If you play like the books recommend, you'll get creamed at these lower limits because you're not going to get that much value from semi-bluffing. The greater calling station character of the players will neutralize some of the advantage of aggression on your part.

I'm excited about the notion of a Sklansky book on this topic. I think it's long overdue and I'd be very interested in their treatment of no limit's unique issues, particularly given that they have Harrington aboard now.

[amulet]

none exists that is really good. harrington and robertie are currently writing one, and based on their previous work i assume it will become the definitive work on nl cash games. however, if you are willing to do some serious reading, i believe you can get the background necessary, and then apply it to NL cash games. there are many good books on limit poker, tournament nl poker, and poker theory. i would real all of the following;

THEORY OF POKER by David Sklansky
Considered the top general poker book of all time. General poker concepts that you must know. A great book.

HOLD'EM POKER FOR ADVANCED PLAYERS by David Sklansky & Mason Malmuth
Considered the most important advanced work on the game today. Full of strategic concepts. A must read. However, it is not clearly written, and will take time to digest much of what is written. Sklansky is the foremost poker author in the world. You will learn an incredible amount from this book.

SMALL STAKES HOLD 'EM by Ed Miller, David Sklansky & Mason Malmuth.
A great book on small stakes Hold 'em. Not for the beginner. It incorporates a lot of the principles of the two above mentioned books ('Hold 'em for Advanced Players" and "Theory of Poker").

MIDDLE LIMIT HOLDEM by Bob Ciaffone and Jim Brier
Many two plus twoers this this book teaches weak tight play. However, it is still a very good book. Especially in discussing the "texture of the flop" on each hand. I find starting Nl cash game players often overlook this important concept. I like this book a lot.

CHAMPIONSHIP NO-LIMIT POT LIMIT HOLD 'EM by T.J. Cloutier & Tom McEvoy
Probably the best book on no limit. (Please note that the same authors also wrote "Championship Hold'em", which is a very different book, don't get them confused when ordering). THis book is not great, but somewhat helpful.

SUPER/SYSTEM (A Course in Poker Power) by Doyle Brunson
Many poker player simply call this the bible. The book is great, and changed the way many people play poker. The top experts in each field write about each of their games. I recommend the section no limit - it was written for cash games. However, it is poorly written, you often need to figure out what Doyle is trying to say, and it is far from comprehensive.

CHAMPIONSHIP TOURNAMENT PRACTICE HANDS by Tom McEvoy and T.J. Cloutier
Goes over hands for no limit. Tells you your options on how to play each "real" hand in different positions.

TOURNAMENT POKER FOR ADVANCED PLAYERS by David Sklansky
This work is vital for anyone playing tournaments.

HARRINGTON ON HOLD 'EM Vol I & II
These are not written for cash games, and the books deal with tournament play (where the blinds are important and are going to rise). However, they are great nl books, and will be the most helpful books for your NL cash games.

If you read all of the above, then sit in low limit cash games, you can and will learn quickly. After reading these books, play play play, and you will become a good player.

Additionally, be aware that because the blinds are so low in regard to your stack, the correct play is much tighter then in tournament play - there is no money to win by stealing the blinds.

And I might e-mail 2 +2, or Robertie, to ask when the nl cash game book will be out.

[IggyWH]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think HoH would be good, although it is primarily focused on tournaments. It's like always being "in the green zone".

With a grain of salt, though. I'm not a NL cash game player.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've read Vol 1 and plan on getting Vol 2 soon, but they are for tournaments and can't exactly use most of the info for cash games.

I suck at tournaments but HOH is a very enjoyable read.

[/ QUOTE ]

I now see the light /images/graemlins/smile.gif

When I read HOH Vol 1, I was playing limit so while it was an enjoyable read, I really didn't take it for its full value since I didn't want the concepts to mix with my limit game.

Now that I have went to just NL cash games, I decided to give Vol 1 a re-read and it just kept bitch-slapping me in the face for saying what I said above.

It also opened my eyes to a pretty huge leak in my game that I'm in the process of fixing. I bought PLNLP and have read most of it so thank you for that suggestion.

[IggyWH]

Thanks for the in depth reply amulet. A lot of the books you mentioned I have already read like TOP, HPFAP, TPFAP, HOH and SSHE. Quite odd for me because I used to never touch a book at all...

I saw "CHAMPIONSHIP NO-LIMIT POT LIMIT HOLD 'EM by T.J. Cloutier & Tom McEvoy" at B&N when I was looking for a NL cash game book to read. I've heard bad things about Cloutier books such as he tells you how to play different than the way he plays. Why do I want to read about some style that's not optimal enough for him to play?

If you think there is valuable info in that book though I might have to give it a shot once I'm done with Pot-Limit No-Limit Poker.

[-Skeme-]

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/0966100719.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg

[MicroBob]

I think the PL/NL Ciaffone book is decent from what I've read so far (got it recently).


Very much looking forward to the new Miller/Sklansky NLHE cash-game book.
Is it only a couple months away now? I thought I remembered seeing Sept 15 as a potential release date.

[Alex/Mugaaz]

I didn't care for the pot limit book honestly. I thought Improve Your Poker was excellent however.

[Malachii]

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I didn't care for the pot limit book honestly.

[/ QUOTE ]

It was much too short. It does do a good job of teaching you to think about stack size and how that effects what hands you play and how you play them though IMO.

[Alex/Mugaaz]

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I didn't care for the pot limit book honestly.

[/ QUOTE ]

It was much too short. It does do a good job of teaching you to think about stack size and how that effects what hands you play and how you play them though IMO.

[/ QUOTE ]

It just covers too many games (some of which are less than popular...too put it mildly) that it is never able to get into anything really meaty.

[punter11235]

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It just covers too many games (some of which are less than popular...too put it mildly) that it is never able to get into anything really meaty.

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If there is such a thing like meaty advice on NLHE in poker books "Potlimit & Nolimit" poker has more than anything Ive read taken together (except 2+2 classic posts of course).
Reread it and learn.

[meijin]

amulet:

Good to hear Harrington is working on another book...but is he really known much for cash game play?

Thanks!

Michael

[amulet]

while it is not a great book, there is some value in it, and a few ideas that you will think about as you play. don't expect too much, but i think it is worth the read.

[amulet]

dan is very smart. he has a business, and therefore, does not play a lot of cash games compared to some. but he certainly has played in a lot of cash games, and he has a terrific understanding of the nl cash games. and it is his understand that will make the book. i expect the cash games book to be every bit as good as harrington on hold em vol 1 & 2. think about his style, yet he was able to understand the "super aggressive" players style. do you think david sklansky and ed miller play in the big nl cash games? i think harrington, sklansky, and miller, have a terrific understanding of said games. therefore, i expect both books to be terrific.

i also find it interesting that phil ivy is supposedly writing a book. while he is a great cash game player, he almost can not explain to you why he does the things he does. he is a feel player, almost an idiot savant at the poker table. therefore, i do not expect much from a phil ivy book unless he has a terrific ghost writer, or it is essentially an biography.

[betgo]

I recommend in order of value:
1. Brunson's chapter in Super System
2. HOH, volume 1 and the first chapter of volume 2
3. How Good is Your Pot Limit Holdem by Reuben

I would also recommend Sklansky's book when it comes out. I won't comment on the various other books out there, but I don't think any of them have great value.

[betgo]

None of the 3 books I recommend are directly oriented towards the games you are likely to be playing, low to mid limit games on the Internet and in US cardrooms. Brunson's book tells you how to play high stakes games 30 years ago. HOH is designed for tournaments. Reuben's book is for pot limit games in England and elsewhere in Europe. The quality of the material is more important. There is a new book oriented towards live 1/2 NL which is complete trash.

[JohnG]

[ QUOTE ]
I saw "CHAMPIONSHIP NO-LIMIT POT LIMIT HOLD 'EM by T.J. Cloutier & Tom McEvoy" at B&N when I was looking for a NL cash game book to read. I've heard bad things about Cloutier books such as he tells you how to play different than the way he plays. Why do I want to read about some style that's not optimal enough for him to play?

If you think there is valuable info in that book though I might have to give it a shot once I'm done with Pot-Limit No-Limit Poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't bother with the Cloutier book. After pot and no limit poker, I recommend you get Improve your poker.

[kleos]

[ QUOTE ]
do you think david sklansky and ed miller play in the big nl cash games? i think harrington, sklansky, and miller, have a terrific understanding of said games. therefore, I expect both books to be terrific.

[/ QUOTE ]
Sklansky said in a recent(ish) post he was playing 300/600, I dont know if Ed talks about his stakes so he doesn't distance himself to far from the low limit crowd.

I don't know what to expect aside from the fact that I'll probably get it off of Amazon once when it goes on sale.

[RollaJ]

[ QUOTE ]
Additionally, be aware that because the blinds are so low in regard to your stack, the correct play is much tighter then in tournament play -

[/ QUOTE ]
Wrong

[ QUOTE ]
there is no money to win by stealing the blinds.

[/ QUOTE ]
Wrong


Otherwise a very nice post

[KingMarc]

For what its worth, I recently contacted Ciaffone asking when his new NL book will be out, and he told me it should be out by the end of the year.

[Supern]

[ QUOTE ]
I recently contacted Ciaffone asking when his new NL book will be out, and he told me it should be out by the end of the year.

[/ QUOTE ]

That is great news!

[Rootabager]

Dan Harrington used to only play cash games and refused to play tournaments along with some other pro's. This was before 95 when he won the championship. So I would assume he has alot of experience.

[Rick Nebiolo]

[ QUOTE ]
Actually, all of Volume I translates very well to NL Cash games, you might want to re-read it and re-evaluate your game as you do.

[/ QUOTE ]

So does Volume 2 in that so much no limit is played with restricted buy-ins making everyone short-stacked (at least when the game starts). Both volumes of HOH are must buys.

I'm sure it's written elsewhere but the Ciaffone-Reuben book is good.

~ Rick

[MyMindIsGoing]

[ QUOTE ]
Dan Harrington used to only play cash games and refused to play tournaments along with some other pro's. This was before 95 when he won the championship. So I would assume he has alot of experience.

[/ QUOTE ]

How do you explain him comming in 6th place in the '87 main event?

[Lawrence Ng]

HoH 1 is like the bare cake itself. It's good and yummy.

Theory of Poker is the icing. It's sweet and gives a lot of flavor to the cake.

Put the icing on the cake and we have a great treat. So slap HoH with ToP together and you have the deadliest NL literature available that is too good to be true.

Lawrence

[rikz]

Thanks for the recommendation. I just looked in this forum for the next book I should read, saw your comment, and ordered a copy of Pot-Limit & No-Limit Poker (Paperback) from Amazon.

[amulet]

nl cash games were few, before his business took off he played a lot of limit cash games, and was a top player. he has experience at both.

[DrPhysic]

amulet,

Excellent list. You omitted Pot Limit and No Limit Poker, Ciaffone and Reuben which, IMO has until recently been one of the few good books out on NL play.

Doc