TT $22 level 3. I think I hate all 4 decisions I made.

[mmbt0ne]

Villian got most of his chips from calling a 5BB pfr with AKo in the small blind, then check-calling a greater than pot-sized all-in on a QTx flop, and spiking his J.

25/50 blinds

Hero (840)
CO (590)
Button (440)
SB (715)
BB (1415)
UTG (2275)
Villian (1725)

Dealt to Hero T/images/graemlins/spade.gif T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif
UTG folds, <font color="red">Villian raises (100) to 100</font>, Hero calls (100), everyone folds

**Flop** : K/images/graemlins/club.gif T/images/graemlins/heart.gif K/images/graemlins/spade.gif
Villian checks, Hero checks.

**Turn** : A/images/graemlins/spade.gif
<font color="red">Villian bets (50), Hero raises (200) to 200, Villian raises (1575) to 1625</font>, Hero calls (540) and is all-In.

[Jay36489]

I think preflop is push or fold. Whats wrong with the rest of the hand?

[mmbt0ne]

Meh, I don't know. I really felt stupid raising that turn. Given how he'd played the hand up to that point, he was showing great strength or great weakness.

If it's great weakness, he's folding to my raise. If it's great strength, I'm effed. I really can't see him playing any king except AK like that. When he checked the flop I really felt like he had AK, if he had a hand that beat me.

Also, I can't think of many 2nd best hands he's going to be able to make on the turn when I give a free card that he's going to be willing to double me up with. Maybe if he has a low PP and spikes his own fullhouse? But I really don't see many people play a PP like that preflop.

[11t]

If you dont go broke here you are awful at poker.

So what if hes a donk that min-bet with AK.

[11t]

KJs/KQ are extremely plausible coming from a donk min-bet

[durron597]

[ QUOTE ]
If you dont go broke here you are awful at poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

[Costanza]

Level 3 has been giving me fits lately for just this reason. The usual disclaimer when I make the first reply to a post: I'm definitely still learning so take the following with that in mind.

Some donk min-raises and you have a good hand. Although it's strong, the most likely situation here is you're facing a coinflip. So you have 3 choices: fold, call or raise.

I think calling is the worst of the 3. You'll have no idea where you stand. Also, if you're going to play this you'd prefer to be heads-up with villian. There are probably going to be overcards on the flop. The more people in the pot the higher the chances are that someone is going to connect.

I think folding TT here is probably too weak. I don't know if I'd go so far as to say horrible, but I'm playing it. This is a bit of a change for me as of late. Looking over some of my stats I've noted that level 3 has been a weakness for me and I think this is a good example of why. It's a little scary to get involved here with TT against a raise, but you're starting to run out of time. You didn't mention when the blinds were going up, but when they do you're going to be &lt;8BB if you don't find some chips. Passing up on an opportunity to get them with TT can't be a good thing.

So that leaves raising. Based on your read I think you're getting a call no matter how much you raise. You have 840, there's 175 in the pot. It would be nice you if you could make a decent raise which didn't commit you to the flop, isolate villan and use your position to play post flop. However, you just don't have enough chips to do this. So I think you have to raise all-in.


As things worked out, you have to bet the flop. There's 275 chips in the middle, unless he happens to have KK or KT you're way ahead and he's already showed you he's willing to draw with improper odds. Push and expect a call.

The turn: ugh. You could very well be behind but not necessarily, and I don't think you're getting away from this one.

[mmbt0ne]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">En réponse à:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font class="small">En réponse à:</font><hr />
If you dont go broke here you are awful at poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not going to dispute that. However, I'm upset with how I went broke. I played this hand like a donkey pretty much the whole way. It doesn't matter that I would've gone broke pushing preflop, or betting the flop and calling the all-in. What matters is I played this hand like [censored].

[Jay36489]

I think the turn is a good place to raise. Its sort of deceptive in that it looks like you just have an ace (which he might have). Even better if he has a king that he has slowplayed. If he has a K there is no way you are getting him out of that hand at any point (which is probably correct), so if he boated up on you its just a beat. I don't mind letting worse hands then a K catch up here at all, and if hes got the K it doesnt matter when you riase this. I can think of many hands that double you up and only two that outdrew you, both of which would never fold anyway (AK &amp; AA).

[gildwulf]

So what if hes a donk that min-bet with AK.

[/ QUOTE ]

No set, no bet. You don't have a set on the flop so you should fold.

[PapiChulo503]

Preflop-
Thats a pretty weak raise from the villain, from your comments it sounds like hes kind of loose and willing to mix it up a bit. Your probably a favorite with TT, calling isnt too bad but a re-raise will let you know where you stand for the rest of the hand.

Flop-
As soon as he checks that flop im pushing all-in.

[runner4life7]

Why would you push the flop when you got a full house? I've never understood the concept of going all in with this good of a hand, you arent getting paid off if you play like that and thats the reason you play hands like this is to get paid off.

[Jay36489]

Thats terrible. Do you slow play anything? Just quads and up?

Another reason to raise this turn is the FD. Sometimes you want to raise him to get money out of him drawing at the flush, even if you aren't afraid of him hitting it. If you continue to slowplay and he misses it, you missed a bet. Charging him to draw at it gets money in the pot and doesn't change the fact that hes all in if he hits.

And that A puts a straight on the board too. That A/images/graemlins/spade.gif is really your dream card here.

[YourFoxyGrandma]

Based on your read, I might bet out on the flop for half the pot or so. Otherwise, I'd probably play it the same way.

[durron597]

[ QUOTE ]
I played this hand like a donkey pretty much the whole way.

[/ QUOTE ]

How so? You got all the chips in. I think you played it fine.

Preflop: You have position, so a call isn't terrible if you think you can play well post flop.
Flop: Well you flopped a full house. Maybe if I check behind he'll put me on AQ or AJ and bet the turn with.
Turn: OK I'm now behind to AK but if he has any big ace he'll probably get the chips in. Hm, he just 3 bet me. Well he could be a donkey with AQ and the pot is big so I have to call.

[Paradigm]

does anybody else make maybe a half-pot or 3/4-pot bet on the flop, with position? i think in the spur of the hand i'd probably check behind but i'd at least like to talk about throwing some chips out on the flop. if the donk is willing to throw his stack away with a gutshot, he might be willing to call with some sort of draw there.

[mmbt0ne]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">En réponse à:</font><hr />
you arent getting paid off if you play like that and thats the reason you play hands like this is to get paid off.

[/ QUOTE ]

If I may ask, what hands are going to pay off that haven't already hit somehow? If an A going to double me up if it hits on the turn?

[durron597]

[ QUOTE ]

If I may ask, what hands are going to pay off that haven't already hit somehow? If an A going to double me up if it hits on the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

If he's slowplaying a King he's drawing to four outs. If he has a pocket pair and doesn't bet this flop he's an idiot. So basically you check to give "no pair" a chance to catch up a little bit.

[PapiChulo503]

Im pushing against this particular villain based on the info provided. Sounds like this villain is willing to gamble. We know that hes willing to draw out without the correct odds. Lets consider his range of hands

AA-QQ- People have a hard time letting go of AA, especially if they are on the loose side. If he's got KK, were screwed but that wont happen that often. The ladies he might drop against our all in.
Ak- Holding this he probably calls and we have a very good chance of busting him.
KQ- Same
Kj- He might possibly call unless hes second guessing his kicker.
K10- Were screwed if hes got this one too.

So chances are that if he is calling our all in we have him trapped and were taking his chips. If he has a weak holding you win on the spot if he lets it go.

[gildwulf]

I really think pushing this flop is a waste of chips...noone in their right mind would call this with less than AA or KX, and people with these hands would pay you off much more often if you slow it.

[Jay36489]

I think an A calls the t150, and maybe folds the river push, maybe not. QJ calls. K is calling at any point so it doesnt matter when you make your move. 2 spades are calling this to draw at it, and if they hit they pay, if not you got another t150 that you wouldnt have had by letting him draw for free. You have already sid hes willing to draw at an inside straight, so again, you want to charge him for the draw, AND hope he hits it. If he doesnt you got the 150. There are a lot of hands that pay you off here.

[PapiChulo503]

[ QUOTE ]
......noone in their right mind would call this with less than AA or KX......

[/ QUOTE ]

Really? AT a $22? Im leaning toward the KX side and Im assuming he thinks hes a favorite so hes calling.