Too Tight?

[elonkra]

Is this a bad preflop fold? The other two options that I see are:

1. Pushing, but I'm not really sure when is it appropriate to start pushing w/more than 10xBB w/mediocre hands in a relatively tight game like this?

-or-

2. Standard raise to t300, but this puts me in a position where I have to bet more than 1/3 of my stack on the flop to make a continuation bet. Do I standard bet and check-fold if I miss against a single caller?



$5.50 UB Turbo SNG
Nine-handed
50/100 Blinds

MDestiny is at seat 0 with 1835.
Topcntrlr is at seat 1 with 805.
spill_21 is at seat 2 with 2725.
tiffer is at seat 4 with 320.
rajo is at seat 5 with 2010.
turtleheadguy is at seat 6 with 2100.
yaspmed is at seat 7 with 1905.
ftaggie is at seat 8 with 1995.
<font color="red"> arknole is at seat 9 with 1305. </font>
The button is at seat 4.

rajo posts the small blind of 50.
turtleheadguy posts the big blind of 100.

MDestiny: -- --
Topcntrlr: -- --
spill_21: -- --
tiffer: -- --
rajo: -- --
turtleheadguy: -- --
yaspmed: -- --
ftaggie: -- --
<font color="red"> arknole: Ac Ts </font>

Pre-flop:

yaspmed folds. ftaggie folds. <font color="red"> arknole folds. </font>

[Oluwafemi]

raise: 255 to 300.

if the game is that tight, only somebody with a good hand is gonna call or reraise.

[elonkra]

So it's hit or check-fold on the flop then, correct?

[Oluwafemi]

[ QUOTE ]
So it's hit or check-fold on the flop then, correct?

[/ QUOTE ]

raising is correct for me, due mostly in part, because it's the type of player i am and because i'm a good postflop player.

also, a good player is gonna recognize when the table is tighter than normal but not very tight. you can loosening up more and raise with hands like A 10s.

[elonkra]

I understand your general rationale, but I'm not sure how being "a good postflop player" helps here all that much.

[Nottom]

Meh, seems fine to me.

[drapes]

I'm not expert, but I play the 5s at Euro, and this is a very standard laydown for me.

Under no circumstance would I raise on the flop, unless I hit both pair on a rainbow board.

I think at the 5s with so many players, there's nearly no such thing as "too-tight."

[Oluwafemi]

[ QUOTE ]
I understand your general rationale, but I'm not sure how being "a good postflop player" helps here all that much.

[/ QUOTE ]

alot of players at the lower levels simply are'nt good at post flop play. even when i miss my flop with a hand like this, i'm alot better at spotting and exploiting oppurtunities like bluffing.

example: say the flop comes 5h 3c 5d

let's then say only one player called and it went check-check to the turn: 3s

you now have two pair with an Ace kicker, a clear semi-bluff oppurtunity with likely the best hand for me. i can't see anybody with 6 6-A A checking this flop after calling a raise preflop in these types of games. when you are good and have alot of experience preflop in situations with your holding, you can still win alot of pots postflop with missed hands when you know what you're doing.

[Oluwafemi]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not expert, but I play the 5s at Euro, and this is a very standard laydown for me.

Under no circumstance would I raise on the flop, unless I hit both pair on a rainbow board.

I think at the 5s with so many players, there's nearly no such thing as "too-tight."

[/ QUOTE ]

but he did say a tight game though. a good player, even at the $5s, can play more hands than a bad one. it's precisely why i would raise.

[drapes]

Yeah, no, I totally disagree.

Loosing up in the 5s is sort of the dumbest strategy I've heard yet.

[Oluwafemi]

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, no, I totally disagree.

Loosing up in the 5s is sort of the dumbest strategy I've heard yet.

[/ QUOTE ]

maybe it's because you play on Eurobet and not Stars or UB. this is'nt a Eurobet or Party hand where you this play might not be all that great.

[tminus]

sorry but i disagree with this
I dont think ATo is a good hand to raise with when 5 people are left to act

[tminus]

sorry but i disagree with this
I dont think ATo is a good hand to raise with when 5 people are left to act

id fold

[Oluwafemi]

[ QUOTE ]
sorry but i disagree with this
I dont think ATo is a good hand to raise with when 5 people are left to act

id fold

[/ QUOTE ]

and there's nothing wrong with your play. do you, dawg. however, i've played enough of these to know that i'm trying to thin the field as much as possible. if you're playing at a table that's slightly tighter than normal, you're only getting called or reraised by a good or better hand. if you're a good enough player, you can either bluff the board [unmade], check to the river [depending on a board with a K, Q, or J- no straight draw], or ditch it facing a good bet. i do quit well in these situations, enough to where i raise with this hand.

[curtains]

I would fold, and I think doing anything else is pretty terrible.

[bkbluedevil]

I think 9 handed in early middle position this is an easy fold. Also I don't see how flop play effects it at all when your stack is 13BB.

[Oluwafemi]

[ QUOTE ]

I would fold, and I think doing anything else is pretty terrible.

[/ QUOTE ]

do you, dawg. when's the last time you played in a buy-in this low? maybe you can't do that at the $55s, $109s, or $215s.

[bkbluedevil]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

I would fold, and I think doing anything else is pretty terrible.

[/ QUOTE ]

do you, dawg. when's the last time you played in a buy-in this low? maybe you can't do that at the $55s, $109s, or $215s.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you raise here it is a leak in your game. Maybe you can get away with it because the players at the 5+1s have bigger leaks, but I can't see this being a profitable play no matter how bad the players are. Even if all the other players are "any ace whores" I think this is a losing play. Also your argument about "I can play it because I'm good on the flop" doesn't apply. The stacks are too short. If stacks were like 50BB sure. 13BB no. You can only be so good or bad when stack are short.

[Oluwafemi]

[ QUOTE ]
I think 9 handed in early middle position this is an easy fold. Also I don't see how flop play effects it at all when your stack is 13BB.

[/ QUOTE ]

we're also talking about a table that's slightly tighter than normal and the blinds are at 50/100. my thinking is, if you got a hand, you might as well advertise it by playing it now. i don't like limping and i can't stand limpers. postflop play with a hand like this is where i make alot decent money. most of the tight players i've played in spots like this fold preflop, especially at a table like this.

[Oluwafemi]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

I would fold, and I think doing anything else is pretty terrible.

[/ QUOTE ]

do you, dawg. when's the last time you played in a buy-in this low? maybe you can't do that at the $55s, $109s, or $215s.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you raise here it is a leak in your game. Maybe you can get away with it because the players at the 5+1s have bigger leaks, but I can't see this being a profitable play no matter how bad the players are. Even if all the other players are "any ace whores" I think this is a losing play. Also your argument about "I can play it because I'm good on the flop" doesn't apply. The stacks are too short. If stacks were like 50BB sure. 13BB no. You can only be so good or bad when stack are short.

[/ QUOTE ]

the stacks are'nt too short. and who's to say you're even getting called in this spot? of course i get away with it at the $5 level. of course the players at my level have bigger leaks, that's why i make money. this is'nt the $4K/$8K game mixed game with a $100,000 cap NLHE. i have often raised in spots like this only to get 3 or 4 callers, some of which were dumb enough to even put their chips in spots where they had no business even playing the hand. i finished ITM countless times because others chose to go along for the ride following a raise by me with a hand like this. postflop play does apply. getting out of the way on a flop after you've had this many callers when you still have 10BB+ while others slaughter themselves is is +EV for me. always has been. i don't play with Chip Reeses and Barry Greensteins.

[curtains]

You are right, being that I play $215s I can't handle the subtle intricacies of the $5s. When I give advice about a lower buyin it comes from experience, as I've played them all. Just because Im currently playing $215's doesnt mean that I don't understand how to beat a low limit game.

[Oluwafemi]

[ QUOTE ]

You are right, being that I play $215s I can't handle the subtle intricacies of the $5s. When I give advice about a lower buyin it comes from experience, as I've played them all. Just because Im currently playing $215's doesnt mean that I don't understand how to beat a low limit game.

[/ QUOTE ]

and when i give advice about raising in this spot [at this level], it comes from experience. i never implied that you did'nt know how to beat a low limit game--- i don't care if you do or not [no offense intended]. do you, dawg.

[citanul]

[ QUOTE ]
and when i give advice about raising in this spot [at this level], it comes from experience. i never implied that you did'nt know how to beat a low limit game--- i don't care if you do or not [no offense intended]. do you, dawg.

[/ QUOTE ]

so you're saying when you asked "when's the last time you played a buyin this low" you were actually asking for like, a date and time, not the rhetorical "you clearly don't know what you're talking about because you haven't ever played in these games/are too distantly removed from them to know what the current game textures are like"?

citanul

ps: what the hell does do you, dawg mean?

[microbet]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not expert, but I play the 5s at Euro, and this is a very standard laydown for me.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would also fold. Especially in a lower buyin game.

[ QUOTE ]
Under no circumstance would I raise on the flop, unless I hit both pair on a rainbow board.

[/ QUOTE ]

I just wanted to comment here that under most circumstances I would play pretty hard if AT hit two pair. It wouldn't have to be a rainbow board.

[Oluwafemi]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
and when i give advice about raising in this spot [at this level], it comes from experience. i never implied that you did'nt know how to beat a low limit game--- i don't care if you do or not [no offense intended]. do you, dawg.

[/ QUOTE ]

so you're saying when you asked "when's the last time you played a buyin this low" you were actually asking for like, a date and time, not the rhetorical "you clearly don't know what you're talking about because you haven't ever played in these games/are too distantly removed from them to know what the current game textures are like"?

citanul

ps: what the hell does do you, dawg mean?

[/ QUOTE ]

neither. it had more to do with him saying that anything other than folding this hand is terrible. against players who predominately have some sense [which is predominately not the case in most low buy-in games], i'm pretty sure this would'nt be a good play overrall. there are not alot of curtains, zeejustins, or gigabets in the low levels. it's precisely why this play is'nt terrible. i benefit from this all the time.