Ethics question

[Vehn]

At the end of a hand, I have AT on a board of A K K Q X and bet. Fishy kid calls me, I show, he says good kicker and mucks. Anyone award him half the pot or do anything other than stack the chips?

[Jeffage]

Absolutely not, he saw your hand and conceded his face down. Stack the chips. If he shows it, and it is misread then that is another story. He simply stated a reason his hand is no good that makes no sense, oh well...he can't read the board if that's the case. For all you know he had nothing and was just lying about his holding before mucking it. He should learn to read the board.

Jeff

[Homer]

He should get nothing because he mucked his hand. It is another story if he tables his hand and says "nice kicker". Then it doesn't matter what he says because cards speak.

-- Homer

[Ed Miller]

Stack the chips. There are some circumstances in poker where you aren't "entitled" to the pot but get it anyway due to a technicality where I think it is a gray area... but this is not it. It everyone's own job to read his hand and not muck it.

[Jimbo]

I would speculate that he also had a ten in his hand but no higher card and was simply being cute.

[JTG51]

I agree with everyone else. You didn't do anything wrong.

Besides, who says he actually had an A? How often do you hear people lie about their hand after the fact? Way too often to start giving half of pots away, that's for sure.

[bernie]

he didnt show his hand, so there is no cardspeak...

his loss.....

why would you award him anything? he hasnt even shown his cards....

stack em and smile...

i didnt get anything when i folded winners by accident (2 times) at showdown.....you learn that lessong very well when you do that too....

b

[Ulysses]

If I had called you down all the way with TT or QT, there's a decent chance I'd say something cute like "good kicker" before I mucked....

[Bob T.]

He mucked, your pot, no problem.

A stupid play from my past. The pot gets big preflop, I think that I had AK, or AQ. The flop comes AKQ. The pot gets bigger. Turn J, Now it is apparent that my two pair is no good, but I have outs for a full house, and the ten for a chop, and the pot is huge. River T. We check it down, and I say I'm playing the board, and toss my hand onto the muck face down. It is mucked and I lose instead of chopping.

The funny thing is, the dealer apologizes to me, and the other player in the pot apologizes, but they didn't do anything wrong. It was my mistake, and I knew the rule, and I screwed up, they didn't do anything to contribute to it. I just hope, that I don't ever do it again.

Good luck,
play well,

Bob T.

[Vehn]

Ironically Bob you got ripped off. Check the rules (http://www.canterburypark.com/card/poker.html#) of CP - you should have got half the pot. The exact same thing happened to me last night as well but I knew the rules and after some yelling finally got half the pot.

In regards to this kid, I think he was too dumb to try to rip me off. But oh well, I'll take the uh free $64.

[Bob T.]

It wasn't at canterbury. In the cardroom that it happened at, there was a big sign that said 'If you are playing the board, you must table your hand face up.' Along with other local rules. I remember reading it while I was waiting for a game.

later,

Bob T.

[JTG51]

Now that's a case where I'd think about giving you half the pot. You knew what you had, you just put your cards in the wrong place.

Assuming I didn't know you, if you hadn't told bad beat story since we both sat down I'd split it with you. /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

[Bob T.]

I would have liked that (splitting the pot). The dealer told me immediately when it happened that my hand was dead, and called a floor to confirm it.

Oh well.
Bob T.

[Gabe]

No. It would also be unethical for anyone else to say anything.

[Tyler Durden]

I did the same thing at a 3-6 game at the Taj back in August.

The board had a King-high straight (off-broadway) and it was me and another opponent, an older woman who was a real bitch. I checked the river and she checked behind. I threw my hand into the muck. But about 10 minutes later the hand was finally resolved when the floorman came back with the rule book and it was determined that we were chopping anyway.

[DannyP]

Why do you say he got ripped off. The rules you posted state in the showdown section that to share in any part of the pot, cards must be shown face up. Once they are in the muck pile they can no longer be uniquely identified as a particular players hand, so they cant be shown face up.

[pudley4]

Here is the rule:

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
Playing the Board: A player may play the board by throwing his hand away only if: (1) the hand has been checked around, or (2) there has been a bet and a call, and the best hand is on the board. The player must CLEARLY declare that he is playing the board before throwing his hand away; otherwise the player relinquishes all claims to the pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

Since he said he was playing the board before he threw his cards away, he would have been entitled to half the pot.

[pudley4]

Fishy kid needs to learn to table his hand at the showdown.

On Sunday the player to my right had A /forums/images/icons/heart.gif 4 /forums/images/icons/heart.gif on a board of T /forums/images/icons/spade.gif 9 /forums/images/icons/club.gif A /forums/images/icons/spade.gif 4 /forums/images/icons/spade.gif 5 /forums/images/icons/spade.gif .

He bet on the river and was called. He said "2 pair". His opp (one of the old guys who are always at CP) put one card on top of the other, picked them up and turned them over so we could all see his A &lt;img src="/forums/images/icons/diamond.gif" alt="" /&gt; , but we couldn't see the other card. He then flipped them back over and tossed them to the dealer to muck. She saw his second card - the 6 &lt;img src="/forums/images/icons/spade.gif" alt="" /&gt; but correctly awarded the pot to the other guy.

Would anyone have given the pot to the old man if they would have won?

Not me.

[Tyler Durden]

Did the older guy have a fit when he wasn't awarded the pot?

[pudley4]

The old guy's hand was A /forums/images/icons/diamond.gif 6 /forums/images/icons/spade.gif

No, he didn't get mad, because he didn't realize he had the flush. He was drawing for his 2nd pair and missed, and like many of the old guys at Canterbury, he just had to show us he had an A.

So he tosses his cards into the muck, the dealer notices he had the 6 /forums/images/icons/spade.gif but pushed the pot to the other guy. Then she said "Sir, if you want to play the hand you need to show both of your cards". He didn't understand what she was talking about until the 1 seat told him that he had had the flush and would have won the hand.

Sadly, after the dealer left, he said he didn't like her because her comment "rubbed him the wrong way" Yeah, sorry she tried to help you /forums/images/icons/frown.gif

[Al_Capone_Junior]

It's not a totally clear-cut question. Ethically, I don't feel you are doing anything wrong by taking the pot. Anyone who risks their money at the gaming table should be prepared to face the consequences of their own actions. Even if this means losing half a pot due to their own lack of knowledge of the proper rules. Once his cards are mucked and dead, the pot is legally and wrightfully yours, so once again, no ethics problem. You payz your money and you takes your chances and you pays the consequences of your own actions when you choose to gamble.

However, if you wanted to be a really super nice guy, you could point out the mistake of your opponent in front of the whole table, then be the big man by giving him half the pot, even though he isn't technically, legally, nor ethically entitled to the mula. It's an image play by you.

Is the enhanced image worth the dollar value of half the pot? and what if nobody but you realizes the situation? and what if somebody brings it up after you are already stacking the chips?

complicated question.

Ethics. Complicated topic.

Al

[PokerPrince]

You play poker to make money. You make money off your opponent's mistakes. This is clearly an opponent making a mistake. Take advantage of that mistake and collect the whole pot.

PokerPrince