Call or fold?

[Kaeser]

10+1 Poker Stars SnG

BB (t3400)
UTG (t1100)
Button (t5200)
Hero (t4600)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 3/images/graemlins/club.gif 7/images/graemlins/club.gif
2 folds , <font color="red"> </font> Hero raises to t300, BB raises t450, <font color="black"> </font> Hero calls.

Flop: 5/images/graemlins/club.gif,6/images/graemlins/club.gif,9/images/graemlins/spade.gif
<font color="red"> </font> Hero bets t450, BB raises t2950 all-in, <font color="black"> </font> Hero calls.


Opponent was tight weak player who often folded to a raise pre-flop and to any bet post flop unless he hit.

When he min-raised pre-flop I put him on a pp 8's or higher or possibly AK,AQ. When he raised me on the flop I thought it most likely that he had an overpair.

Do you agree with calling here? I just started playing tournaments and I'm not sure if I should have folded here and waited for the money.

[the_joker]

I say fold pre flop and after the flop, this could be tight weak though.

[pergesu]

I'm not sure why this is a question. You seemed to answer it in your post.

[ QUOTE ]
Opponent was tight weak player who often folded to a raise pre-flop and to any bet post flop unless he hit.

[/ QUOTE ]

Just to be clear: Judging from your comments and the action, it's safe to assume that he hit. You've got a nice sized stack and are still in the hunt for first. No need to gamble here. It's not a "wait for the money" fold (which you should never do, btw. The key to bubble play is aggression). It's just a smart fold cause you have a lot of chips and are behind, by your own reasoning.

[pergesu]

[ QUOTE ]
I say fold pre flop and after the flop, this could be tight weak though.

[/ QUOTE ]
That's probably a good idea. He has a lot of chips compared to the blinds, he's not in trouble at all.

I probably take the same line though. Looks like he min raised, and BB min reraised. Getting 5-1 on a call, I'm definitely taking it, with the hope that I can bust him if I flop big.

But definitely fold preflop if you can't play well after the flop. Which I'd say is the case if you're calling this all-in.

[Kaeser]

That's the thing I don't really think I'm behind. With a double belly buster straight draw and 4-flush I have 15 outs with 2 chances to make it.

[kyro]

The raise PF is silly. Just fold and save yourself heartache. You have to call the reraise, but you're pretty crushed here.

This is a perfect flop for you. I think he bets this flop almost every time, so I check/raise all-in when he does. I think you might be a slight favorite, but wouldn't mind the chips in case he has AK or something.

[45suited]

The whole hand (raising pre-flop to begin with) seems pretty unnecessary given your chip position. You tried to push him off of his hand and it didn't work. But when a player you describe as weak-tight pushes all-in, I'm folding here. You still are in great shape without taking this unnecessary gamble.

Have you considered the very real possiblity that your flush draw is no good? Let's see... he re-raised pre-flop, re-raised on the flop and he's weak tight... AcKc doesn't enter your mind at all?

[adanthar]

[ QUOTE ]
Have you considered the very real possiblity that your flush draw is no good? Let's see... he re-raised pre-flop, re-raised on the flop and he's weak tight... AcKc doesn't enter your mind at all?

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh no a monster under the bed /images/graemlins/frown.gif

You're a favorite against aces, you have to call. That said, easy fold PF.

[kyro]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Have you considered the very real possiblity that your flush draw is no good? Let's see... he re-raised pre-flop, re-raised on the flop and he's weak tight... AcKc doesn't enter your mind at all?

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh no a monster under the bed /images/graemlins/frown.gif

You're a favorite against aces, you have to call. That said, easy fold PF.

[/ QUOTE ]

When? Initially? Or also after the reraise? I think the call of the reraise is a nobrainer.

[45suited]

Not a monster under the bed. I wouldn't have had a problem with the OP putting the other guy all-in. But don't you think that the fact that a weak-tight is making this play is cause for some concern? And doesn't the fact that he is still in great position if he folds play into this at all?

[Kaeser]

As to my raise pre-flop, I risk 225 in attempt to win 225. As long as he folds more then half the time I make money off the play. This player folded probably 3/4 of the time.

On the flop the only hand I'm really afraid is AcKc but I hadn't seen him raise with a draw even with overcards the whole tournament so I didn't assign a high probability to that hand.

I think the big mistake was risking so many chips in the tournament when I was still in a good chip position. In a cash game I'd definitely call with an OESD and flush draw. At least I would against this player.

[adanthar]

kyro: Initially of course.

45suited: he's getting around 2:1 on the call, BB doesn't have 99 (or 66 or 55), there's a whopping one combo of A /images/graemlins/club.gif K /images/graemlins/club.gif that you're still better than 2:1 to outdraw and like 3 dozen overpairs. Not close.

[45suited]

[ QUOTE ]
I think the big mistake was risking so many chips in the tournament when I was still in a good chip position.

[/ QUOTE ]

That was my main point. Maybe this is one of those spots where a +EV situation should be passed up because of the tournament situation (by that I mean not calling the all-in).

I just am saying "maybe", so please Adanthar, be gentle with me on this one. I'm here to learn... /images/graemlins/grin.gif

Edit: Okay, I just read Adanthar's last post... I surrender.

[Kaeser]

Exactly and that's just what I'm verifying, I only started tournament play in the last week. I've had some successes but I think my biggest leak is that If I feel I'm a decent favorite even by a fairly slight margin I'm still willing to put it all in the center.

[adanthar]

No biggie. This is another one of those hands like the QQ hand - it's a tricky spot you should never be in in the first place.

BTW, I'm eyeballing all these numbers but if you check and he pushes, it's much closer to a fold due to stack sizes.

[45suited]

Yeah, that was what we were both thinking but we were wrong. Can't argue with Adanthar's reasoning...

[kyro]

So, you think he's folding 50% of the time getting 3:1 on his call with position?

I don't.

[Phil Van Sexton]

[ QUOTE ]
I think the big mistake was risking so many chips in the tournament when I was still in a good chip position.

[/ QUOTE ]

As pointed out already, your big mistake was betting the flop.

You have him covered by 1200, so you are definately right to get all your chips in here. However, there is a better way to do that than how you played this. You should check raise him allin.

I believe this is best explained in this Paul Phillips blog entry (http://www.livejournal.com/users/extempore/43850.html).

[RobGW]

If BB was tight I'd try to steal his blinds too. No problem there. OK so he min raises. Now you know approximately what he has but he has no idea what you have. I see this as the perfect opportunity to check raise all in on the flop and put him to the decision. Now your stuck in the difficult spot. But I would still call. You are getting almost 2:1 pot odds and you are the favorite to win the hand. Thats just too good for me to pass up. If he has an overpair you have 15 outs. If he has AKc you still have straight outs and you can pair up to win also. so you still have 12 outs although its weaker because he has the flush draw. So if you win here your ITM with the chip lead. If you lose your still in it. With UTG shortstacked and to your left and BB being tight they should stay out of your way enabling you to steal your way back.

[Kaeser]

I completely agree with that

My only defense is that I was tired, I'd won big at the cash table and figured that a tourny was the best way to play while I waited for my laundry to finish without risking a lot of money.