I liked this move here. Bubble Stop N Go

[Scuba Chuck]

<font color="blue"> Thoughts? </font>

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t200 (4 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Hero (t1095)
BB (t3675)
UTG (t1480)
Button (t1750)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises to t400</font>, Hero calls t300, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>.

Flop: (t1000) J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 9/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="red"> Hero pushes allin </font> Button calls t695.

[spentrent]

Seems like a very favorable flop for your play.

[spentrent]

Do you ever put the brakes on if the flop is nasty, like J-Q-K?

[Matt R.]

I like it a lot. Ups your FE a lot, which is all the analysis I have at the moment /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[tjh]

Any reads on the Button ?

If he is an aggressive blind stealer and has been getting away with minraise blind steals then I would prefer a preflop all-in over a stop-and-go.

Also there is a risk that the BB would call the raise. Stop-and-go plays better heads up. Against two opponents you would have trouble. I suppose you would push the flop given a call from the BB ?

So although it is read dependent, both on the nature of the button player and the BB chances of calling the raise. I would favor a all-in preflop vs the stop-and-go.

[dhende3]

I like it... it is very hard to call with nothing (likely the button's holdings) there although some party players will call everytime with A high. As is normally the case, any unusual play will be assumed a bluff by the typical party donk and called out of spite (whether or not it is +EV, not that they will have any concept of EV). I am interested in the result.

[Scuba Chuck]

[ QUOTE ]
Do you ever put the brakes on if the flop is nasty, like J-Q-K?

[/ QUOTE ]

I wouldn't think that flop to be nasty here.

[spentrent]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Do you ever put the brakes on if the flop is nasty, like J-Q-K?

[/ QUOTE ]

I wouldn't think that flop to be nasty here.

[/ QUOTE ]

There are a lot of possible draws that are getting better than marginal pot odds to call here (more with two suited cards).

And there's the possibility of crafty, aware players who know they might be in a +EV spot to call here against another crafty, aware player like yourself.

Of course, I suppose the central assumption behind a stop and go is that the villain is neither aware nor crafty.

Why do you like the J-Q-K board? What am I missing?

[Scuba Chuck]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Do you ever put the brakes on if the flop is nasty, like J-Q-K?

[/ QUOTE ]

I wouldn't think that flop to be nasty here.

[/ QUOTE ]

There are a lot of possible draws that are getting better than marginal pot odds to call here (more with two suited cards).

And there's the possibility of crafty, aware players who know they might be in a +EV spot to call here against another crafty, aware player like yourself.

Of course, I suppose the central assumption behind a stop and go is that the villain is neither aware nor crafty.

Why do you like the J-Q-K board? What am I missing?

[/ QUOTE ]

I didn't say I liked it. I just think that I'll have a tought time laying down TP with as many chips as I'll have left if I fold.

[spentrent]

[ QUOTE ]
I didn't say I liked it. I just think that I'll have a tought time laying down TP with as many chips as I'll have left if I fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm sorry I have mixed things up here. I meant a J-Q-K board where your hand is any hand with which you'd play a stop and go -- not your specific hand that HAS A K!!!

Hahaha, my bad!

I'm thinking, say, you hold something like 44 with the same preflop action and a J-Q-K flop.

[Nick M]

i like it if you think BB folds here. If you think he might call, you might have to chuck it. But pushing the flop seems strange...check raise might be better. With this flop I would think I had the best hand, so I wouldn't want him to fold. He should push you in here if you check. I think the question is what are you trying to accomplish by pushing here???? If you didn't hit anything then I say ok push, you have king high, but here you have middle pair good kicker. I think you need value now.

I remember a hand playing live cash where I had 8s in position. I called a raise preflop and the flop was KQX with 2 hearts. Villian lead and I called to draw for a scare card. I hit the heart on the turn but it was the 8 of hearts hahaha. So i drew for my scare card and caught it but it helped me. I had to immediately figure out a way to get value for this newly accuired set hahaha. It got me thinking about value and how sometimes you go into a hand or a turn or river with a plan to out play someone, but you end up getting lucky and need to change your plan to extract value.

[45suited]

I hope this isn't a stupid question but why not just fold pre-flop? UTG is about to take the BB, you will have FE against him to push the next hand if possible.

[Nick M]

it's not stupid I like it.

it's a flip between Chuck and Chuck it hahaha.

[Scuba Chuck]

[ QUOTE ]
i like it if you think BB folds here. If you think he might call, you might have to chuck it. But pushing the flop seems strange...check raise might be better. With this flop I would think I had the best hand, so I wouldn't want him to fold. He should push you in here if you check. I think the question is what are you trying to accomplish by pushing here???? If you didn't hit anything then I say ok push, you have king high, but here you have middle pair good kicker. I think you need value now.

I remember a hand playing live cash where I had 8s in position. I called a raise preflop and the flop was KQX with 2 hearts. Villian lead and I called to draw for a scare card. I hit the heart on the turn but it was the 8 of hearts hahaha. So i drew for my scare card and caught it but it helped me. I had to immediately figure out a way to get value for this newly accuired set hahaha. It got me thinking about value and how sometimes you go into a hand or a turn or river with a plan to out play someone, but you end up getting lucky and need to change your plan to extract value.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would still push TP here ahead of a check-raise, or checking it through. Two reasons. My primary objective is to pickup the chips without a showdown, I don't want to give him too much incentive to call (I don't have a deep enough stack remaining to check-raise). Furthermore, the one card I really don't want villain to see for free is a ten. You'd be pissed if he had 9x.

My point is, I would push to accomplish my primary objective, which is to pickup chips without a showdown. If I'm called so be it.

I don't know if this is correct, but it's how I play/think.

Scuba

BTW, I learned you're not pushing out draws. Villain had QT. He did have odds...

[Newt_Buggs]

I don't think that this is a good play blind, but its something that I never thought about before and could definitly be effective against the right opponent. I think that you need to be confident that the mini raise is weak and that he isn't a loose player.

[Newt_Buggs]

[ QUOTE ]
Do you ever put the brakes on if the flop is nasty, like J-Q-A?

[/ QUOTE ]
FYP, wasn't that simple?

I'm also curious about this question

[Nick M]

damn QT might be the favorite here...let me look...nahhh you got him by 53.1% hahaha I guess because you have 2 of his outs. And If he doesn't have a backdoor flush. So yeah he has insane odds.

[Scuba Chuck]

[ QUOTE ]
damn QT might be the favorite here...let me look...nahhh you got him by 53.1% hahaha I guess because you have 2 of his outs. And If he doesn't have a backdoor flush. So yeah he has insane odds.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes he did have the backdoor flush draw. I lost to a turn 8. BWaHaWaHa.

[Scuba Chuck]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Do you ever put the brakes on if the flop is nasty, like J-Q-A?

[/ QUOTE ]
FYP, wasn't that simple?

I'm also curious about this question

[/ QUOTE ]

NOW THAT IS A NASTY FLOP. Pretty sure villain is not foldign to that crappy flop. Small chance villain has a small pair. That being said, this is a scary flop for villain as well.

One thing I need to study more in this strategy, is what is the proper ratio of stacks to blinds, etc. I've actually done this move before being the bigstack over a smaller bigstack limping.

Anyway, there's also some more interesting discussion on whether to do this with an Axx flop, with xx not equaling any broadway cards.

[Scuba Chuck]

bump for the afternoon guys

[curtains]

Well I guess its okay, but I would have preferred to fold preflop.