Any of you poker players Christians as well? If so, how do you deal..

[mithong]

with the stigma attached to poker of it being an unholy thing to do...?

[wacki]

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with the stigma attached to poker of it being an unholy thing to do...?

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Read the Bible. "Gambling = a sin" is a fabrication of organized religion.

[spamuell]

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with the stigma attached to poker of it being an unholy thing to do...?

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Read the Bible. "Gambling = a sin" is a fabrication of organized religion.

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Regardless of whether or not this is true, it has very little to do with the "stigma attached to poker of it being an unholy thing to do."

[[censored]]

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with the stigma attached to poker of it being an unholy thing to do...?

[/ QUOTE ]

Read the Bible. "Gambling = a sin" is a fabrication of organized religion.

[/ QUOTE ]

I haven't been to any type of church since I was a kid but I thought gambling wasn't treated as a sin but rather an activity that can lead to problems are therefore should be avoided. Similar to smoking. Sort of like a word of caution or wisdom.

[Alobar]

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with the stigma attached to poker of it being an unholy thing to do...?

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Read the Bible. "Gambling = a sin" is a fabrication of organized religion.

[/ QUOTE ]

I haven't been to any type of chruch since I was a kid but I thought gambling wasn't treated as a sin but rather an activity that can lead to problems are therefore shoulf be avoided. Similar to smoking. Sort of like a word of caution or wisdom.

[/ QUOTE ]

woa there son, with that kind of logical thinking, its obvious you havent been to church since you were little. I think this thread was meant for the brainwashed christian types.

[Joe826]

depends on the church really. to mormons i'm pretty sure it's sinful, as well as some fundamentalist christians, but to most it's not really mentioned and doesn't seem to have any stigma apart from the normal social stigma. as far as i can tell, anyways.

[wacki]

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I thought gambling wasn't treated as a sin but rather an activity that can lead to problems are therefore shoulf be avoided. Similar to smoking. Sort of like a word of caution or wisdom.

[/ QUOTE ]

Kindof. The main lessons in the Bible talk about idolatry. People twist and spin the few stories in the Bible that talk about gambling to mean something they don't. A ton of that goes on in organized religion. Heck the Roman Catholic religion doesn't allow priests to marry. This is not in the Bible. The only reason this occurs is because in medieval times only the rich could afford to build churches and learn to read. When the priest died the church would lose all of that wealth because the son/daughter would inherit it. Gordon Gekko goes holy....

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depends on the church really. to mormons i'm pretty sure it's sinful, as well as some fundamentalist christians, but to most it's not really mentioned and doesn't seem to have any stigma apart from the normal social stigma. as far as i can tell, anyways.

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The church I went to was Mormon so I am pretty it is treated how I described. Again it has been awhile, but I know smoking and drinking are treated as such so I would assume gambling is included.

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I thought gambling wasn't treated as a sin but rather an activity that can lead to problems are therefore shoulf be avoided. Similar to smoking. Sort of like a word of caution or wisdom.

[/ QUOTE ]

Kindof. The main lessons in the Bible talk about idolatry. People twist and spin the few stories in the Bible that talk about gambling to mean something they don't. A ton of that goes on in organized religion. Heck the Roman Catholic religion doesn't allow priests to marry. This is not in the Bible. The only reason this occurs is because in medieval times only the rich could afford to build churches and learn to read. When the priest died the church would lose all of that wealth because the son/daughter would inherit it. Gordon Gekko goes holy....

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah that makes sense, I always thought the true lessons of the God or religeon or whatever you want to call it basically came down to the golden rule. Thus if you have a family you are supporting, gambling the money needed to support and better the life of that family would be wrong.

Which is completely different from someone playing poker as a moderated hobby regardless if they are a winner of loser.

[wacki]

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The church I went to was Mormon so I am pretty it is treated how I described. Again it has been awhile, but I know smoking and drinking are treated as such so I would assume gambling is included.

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Again, this is the Mormon church. The Bible, whether you are religious or not, really is a fascinating book. The Bible is ok with drinking, gambling, and smoking. The Bible doesn't even say lying is bad. Only bearing false witness against thy neighbor is bad. Those are two very different things.

[jedi]

It's not "gambling" to me, though it is. It's a game, we just keep score with money. I don't play above my means.

If anyone asks, I give them the analogy of flipping coins as a 2-1 money favorite, or playing the stock market. I can point them out to math and situational advantages. I think that's what turned my dad around.

The biggest concern is the stereotypical broke, desperate, and addicted gambler that casinos turn out, causing social ruin. I'm trying to make sure I don't turn into that person. (as I continue reading these forums from work)

[wacki]

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Thus if you have a family you a supporting gambling the money needed to support and better the life of that family would be wrong. Which is completely different from someone playing poker as a moderated hobby regardless if they are a winner of loser.

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I'm not sure what you mean by the first sentence but idolatry is excess. If you gamble for a living it is not idolatry unless you are neglecting your kids because of gambling. If you are a stock broker working 80 hours a week and you are too busy to see your kids, that is idolatry. Do you understand?

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The church I went to was Mormon so I am pretty it is treated how I described. Again it has been awhile, but I know smoking and drinking are treated as such so I would assume gambling is included.

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Again, this is the Mormon church. The Bible, whether you are religious or not, really is a fascinating book. The Bible is ok with drinking, gambling, and smoking. The Bible doesn't even say lying is bad. Only bearing false witness against thy neighbor is bad. Those are two very different things.

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I recently downloaded the audio book and I'm looking forward to it for my mext poker marathon, probably within the next week.

I generally think people make tend to make things more complicated than they really are. Living a "good" life being no exception.

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Thus if you have a family you a supporting gambling the money needed to support and better the life of that family would be wrong. Which is completely different from someone playing poker as a moderated hobby regardless if they are a winner of loser.

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I'm not sure what you mean by the first sentence but idolatry is excess. If you gamble for a living it is not idolatry unless you are neglecting your kids because of gambling. If you are a stock broker working 80 hours a week and you are too busy to see your kids, that is idolatry. Do you understand?

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Yes that's what I was trying to say. Excess, Thank you.

[wacki]

Speaking of the Bible, this woman makes me want to get Biblical:

http://img121.exs.cx/img121/2844/ad371catherinebell3ry.jpg

[[censored]]

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Speaking of the Bible, this woman makes me want to get Biblical:

http://img121.exs.cx/img121/2844/ad371catherinebell3ry.jpg

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Whether it is God or Science & Nature, something works in marvelous ways. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Josh W]

I haven't read any of the replies yet. I'm a devout Christian, but I think that worrying about stigmas is ridiculous.

Josh

[Gallopin Gael]

I don't tell anyone that I play seriously, because the baptist seminary I attend would kick me out if they knew.

[rmarotti]

Catholicism does not consider gambling a sin.

[IndieMatty]

As I rack up my chips, I stand up, remove the alter boy from my lap and take 10% from my pocket and tithe.

[miketurner]

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The Bible doesn't even say lying is bad. Only bearing false witness against thy neighbor is bad. Those are two very different things.

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Leviticus 19:11 "Do not lie. Do not deceive one another" It doesn't get simpler than that. I don't know anywhere off the top of my head where it says 'do not gamble' though. I suppose I do try to deceive people about the strength of my hand though.

As for the question of the stigma of gambling... There are endless things that people say as if they are truths, when they really don't know what they are talking about. Religion being the most common. It seems that the people that spout off the most, often know the least. That is not an attack on you. Just a general statement. Please don't be offended.

[siccjay]

Churches around here have picnics in the summer. They are playing Hold em this weekend at the picnic. Everyone antes a dollar (That the church takes) and then the left of the button makes the first bet of $1-$3. I think they are gambling.

[Freakin]

I tithe at least 10% on all winnings. I'm basically only a casino whore now, but the same applies.

Freakin

[TStoneMBD]

most things in life are a sin, just because they havent been clearly documented as a sin in the bible, they are still a sin. anything that god doesnt want you to do is a sin. jesus told one of his disciples that he had to give everything he owned away to the poor. that is pretty much the gist of gods will. to benefit off the loss of others is a sin. god would want you to produce instead of leech. its not very complicated.

a documented law of god that can be translated to poker is "treat others the way you want to be treated." you dont want people taking your money in poker and vice versa.

[jakethebake]

I love that scene in "The Quiet Man" where the Catholic priests and the Protestant ministers are betting on the fight. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[wacki]

[ QUOTE ]
Leviticus 19:11 "Do not lie. Do not deceive one another" It doesn't get simpler than that. I don't know anywhere off the top of my head where it says 'do not gamble' though. I suppose I do try to deceive people about the strength of my hand though.

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What translation/bible version? I was specifically talking about the ten commandments. The ten commandments are worded very carefully. I don't have time to look into it today, but I'm sure there was a bigger meaning to that story. Quotes taken out of context, especially translated quotes are often useless.

[vulturesrow]

[ QUOTE ]
Kindof. The main lessons in the Bible talk about idolatry. People twist and spin the few stories in the Bible that talk about gambling to mean something they don't. A ton of that goes on in organized religion. Heck the Roman Catholic religion doesn't allow priests to marry. This is not in the Bible. The only reason this occurs is because in medieval times only the rich could afford to build churches and learn to read. When the priest died the church would lose all of that wealth because the son/daughter would inherit it. Gordon Gekko goes holy....


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Wacki,

YOu post some good stuff, but this is completely wrong.

[Joe826]

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depends on the church really. to mormons i'm pretty sure it's sinful, as well as some fundamentalist christians, but to most it's not really mentioned and doesn't seem to have any stigma apart from the normal social stigma. as far as i can tell, anyways.

[/ QUOTE ]

The church I went to was Mormon so I am pretty it is treated how I described. Again it has been awhile, but I know smoking and drinking are treated as such so I would assume gambling is included.

[/ QUOTE ]

maybe it was, but i have lots of mormon friends and many of them think it would a sin to gamble heavily. in fact the prophet just gave a talk specifically about poker to the young men during conference. i think they advocated giving the money you would lose to the missionary's fund..

[moondogg]

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most things in life are a sin, just because they havent been clearly documented as a sin in the bible, they are still a sin. anything that god doesnt want you to do is a sin. jesus told one of his disciples that he had to give everything he owned away to the poor. that is pretty much the gist of gods will. to benefit off the loss of others is a sin. god would want you to produce instead of leech. its not very complicated.


[/ QUOTE ]

Bullshit. I produce taxes, which in turn do all kind of great things for the encony. It pays for trees, sunshine, and people who just don't feel like working (God bless'em).

[ QUOTE ]

a documented law of god that can be translated to poker is "treat others the way you want to be treated." you dont want people taking your money in poker and vice versa.

[/ QUOTE ]

I want people to try. Otherwise, you're just playing with yourself.

[whiskeytown]

I ignore the pressure to conform - just as I ignore their thinking I should come to church more then once a year.

poker playing falls under a greek term called adiophria (that is so spelled wrong) - but translated it means, "Questionable things" - -

it's applied as a doctrine most often when refering to Idols and meat sacrificed to them - it's not a sin, but if it causes a brother to stumble, then you're not supposed to do it around them - but there is no prohibition on gambling -

of course, legalistic Pharisee types can throw a verse like "let him who does not work not eat" and the verse about the love of money being the root of all evil and try to apply it to this circumstance, but I don't feel it really applies.

if you really need a theological argument, I could get one for you - but if you have any lingering doubts about it, I'd say don't play - but if you don't give a rats ass what people with bad doctrine think, then who cares?

technically, however, if you have a brother in Christ with a gambling problem who might actually relapse based upon participation, then you're supposed to quit - that's the New Testament way of thinking - but of course, that doesn't happen nearly as often as someone who just butts into your life and says "if you don't work, you shouldn't eat, blah blah blah blah blah"

RB

[whiskeytown]

actually, I've heard this -

basically, by forbidding priests to marry, any wealth they may accrue gets given back to the church -

there are verses in the bible indicating the Apostles, specifically Peter and Paul, were married at one time and that while their conversions may have cost them their wives, it wasn't a requirement - strictly a product of Catholic Theology.

RB

[Talk2BigSteve]

What ever happen to the parable of the talents???

If we look at poker as a skill(talent) to be learned and you attempt to play 100% +EV. Then are you not investing your money just like the wise son???

Living, Learning, and Laughing.
Big Steve /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[vulturesrow]

[ QUOTE ]
actually, I've heard this -

basically, by forbidding priests to marry, any wealth they may accrue gets given back to the church -

there are verses in the bible indicating the Apostles, specifically Peter and Paul, were married at one time and that while their conversions may have cost them their wives, it wasn't a requirement - strictly a product of Catholic Theology.

RB

[/ QUOTE ]

whiskey,

I know you probably heard this but it isnt correct. Your statment was actually closer to the truth. It is a product of Catholic theology, with biblical and historical support. If youre interested, I can probably post some references, at least explaining the Catholic take on this.

EDIT: The Catholic Church doesnt expressly forbid gambling. It has a pretty reasonable take on it actually.

[miketurner]

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Leviticus 19:11 "Do not lie. Do not deceive one another" It doesn't get simpler than that. I don't know anywhere off the top of my head where it says 'do not gamble' though. I suppose I do try to deceive people about the strength of my hand though.

[/ QUOTE ]

What translation/bible version? I was specifically talking about the ten commandments. The ten commandments are worded very carefully. I don't have time to look into it today, but I'm sure there was a bigger meaning to that story. Quotes taken out of context, especially translated quotes are often useless.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have the NIV version. I concede that there may be errors in translation. But I don’t know Hebrew or the location of the original text... so I work with what I have and have faith. I’m pretty sure that a believer knows in his heart what is right or wrong for themselves. I can easily see how the devil can turn gambling into a perversion, making it wrong... but I tried to look up the word “gambling” in the concordance of my Bible and found nothing. I found lots about lying though... Look up Jeremiah 9 for yourself. The whole verse is about lying. It seems pretty clear. I don’t think translation errors could change this verse so much to think that lying is ok. If you don’t have time to look things up... it would be wise not to make comments like “The Bible doesn’t even say lying is a sin.” There are many sins listed outside of the 10 Commandments. Again, this is not an attack on you. Please don’t take it personal.

[Pocket Trips]

I thought psychology was the de-facto religion forum??? /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[grimel]

the anti gambling stance has ONE logical base (if you get an ebible and do a global search for somthing like casting lots you'd find a few bazillion places where various happenings were decided by such) - getting rich without effort. Anyone who thinks making a living playing poker is without hard effort needs to try it. The "problem" with gambling is nobody has put enough thought into the various general statements. Lottery/keno/general roulette/big wheel/etc/etc are games of chance with absurd odd against the player with the chance for a huge payout if one gets lucky. No skill involved. Blackjack, poker, pool, and a few other means of wagering (there is a difference in gamblign and wagering) have a very important skill factor at for a given risk level the same people will consistantly win the most $$.

I find it funny that many of those complaining about poker think nothing of entering a fishing tourney or golf tourney, but consider a poker tourney "gambling". I've seen them play golf, I'm gambling less walking into a strange casino and playing black 17.

[grimel]

The 10 Commandments are a very small portion of the law. His quote was accurate, he left out to not act in a deceptive manner and a few other things. There is much more to it than picking and choosing random text. People tend to make the whole thing more complicated than it is by taking suggestions and making them sins.