10-20: A questionable TT hand

[JTG51]

I'm in LP with T /forums/images/icons/heart.gif T /forums/images/icons/diamond.gif . A poor, loose aggressive player in EP opens for a raise. I 3 bet, both blinds call as does EP. SB is a total unknown to me.

Flop: Q /forums/images/icons/club.gif 9 /forums/images/icons/club.gif 3 /forums/images/icons/diamond.gif

Blinds check, EP bets and I raise. SB calls 2 cold, BB folds.

Turn: [Q /forums/images/icons/club.gif 9 /forums/images/icons/club.gif 3 /forums/images/icons/diamond.gif] T /forums/images/icons/heart.gif

Checked to me, I bet, both call.

River: [Q /forums/images/icons/club.gif 9 /forums/images/icons/club.gif 3 /forums/images/icons/diamond.gif T /forums/images/icons/heart.gif] 2 /forums/images/icons/club.gif

SB bets, EP calls, I call.

Thoughts?

[Ginogino]

JTG51:
It's easy to believe that you're ahead until the river. When SB lead-bets into 2 opponents after check-calling up to then, I think you have to figure SB's hand was improved in a big way by the river card (the 2c). And that pretty much means a flush -- but it's worth calling to be sure and to find out what kind of hand SB will check-call with preflop, on the flop and on the turn. I'd expect EP to turn up with either one or possibly two pairs.

Gino

[mikelow]

Not much to say, but I like your overcall on the river. On the turn, it looks like SB is on a draw, but you have too much to fold.

[nykenny]

my guess is that you are beat by SB, AcXc or something like KcJc, KcTc... in the live ring game where I normally play, this is prolly a very easy river laydown.

[astroglide]

i think anybody that calls a set an easy laydown here needs to get their head examined :|

[Ulysses]

SB calls 2+ cold pre-flop, 2 cold on the flop, calls the turn, then bets the river. Obviously, this smells like Ac[Big]c. But there's a hope it's something like AcKs that missed both backdoors and is betting out on the scare card. Or something like AQ or 99.

I think you're in second place, but you have to overcall here.

[Ed Miller]

I think you played fine.

[JTG51]

Do you really think it's ever easy to fold a set for 1 bet on the river? Are your opponents that straight forward? I agree that I'm probably beaten here, but I don't think it's an easy fold.

I think I remember a 2+2 poster (possibly Clarkmeister?) saying that if you never fold a set you probably aren't too far from optimal play. I've always tended to agree with that, only folding sets in the most obvious circumstances.

[Mano]

I think you shouldn't play with a deck that contains two T /forums/images/icons/heart.gif 's

[glen]

This comment is to the twoplustwo forum as "You play that garbage?" is to playing live.

[JTG51]

It sure is glen.

The turn card should have been T /forums/images/icons/spade.gif . Thanks for pointing out the error Mano.

[Eric P]

you have lost no question. It's over, it sucks but this pot is no longer yours you have no chance.
CALL
although, i could see folding, because you get to see his cards anyway. But you would never forgive yourself if that guy was bluffing the flush, and the flopped 2 pair (or whatever the other guy had) called him and you didn't.

[leon]

You do not lay down here. Period. EP's call means nothing to me here given JTG's read. And a set should VERY RARELY be laid down for one bet on the river, in a pot this size, with an obvious scare card. As a wise poster once said, "try and find excuses to fold early, and find excuses to call late". As another one said, "you don't win money in limit hold em by making great laydowns on the river".

Perhaps I'm acutely aware of this b/c of something that happened to me last night. I open raise in MP with AJ, one late cold caller, SB calls. Three to the flop of J103, two diamonds. I bet, both call.

Turn- K. I bet, both call.

River- A of diamonds. Board is J103KA, three diamonds, both have been calling the whole way. SB bets, I confidently muck, and late guy calls. SB has 10K (?) and late has a WEAK ace. Was I kicking myself? Yes. I'm not saying I wouldn't lay it down again under similar circumstances, but people can always surprise you.

Leon

[cybertilt]

I agree, you are getting 12x1 odds, you have to make a crying call here. The real problem I have with the whole hand is I can't believe our hero raised the flop. You are getting yourself into bad positions raising middle pairs when there is a two flush, an over card, and a coordinated board (which if someone has JT your down to one out not two).

[JTG51]

It's funny, you say I have "no chance" but still say to call. That's kind of how I felt at the time.

[JTG51]

I'm surprised you are the first one to comment on the flop play, since I thought it was questionable also. I thought the flop and river decisions were equally questionable.

[J.A.Sucker]

My only question, is what's questionable about the hand? You can't like the river, but you've gotta love closing the action. This is a little trickier if you're in the middle, but 1 BB for a set isn't much to pay.

My suggestion: Call time. While thinking, call service and order a sick-bag and a glass of water. Then make the river call. I hope you won.

[JTG51]

As everyone guessed, SB made a flush. She had J /forums/images/icons/club.gif 6 /forums/images/icons/club.gif .

EP had JJ. I put in 5 bets while way behind, sucked out, then got sucked out on.

[eldo77]

I think your raise on the flop is O.K. here, since you reraised before the flop and are representing a big hand.It is likely to give you a free card after the turn if you wind up needing it.Besides, a lot of opponents will bet right into you on the flop with any draw, any pair, or even with overcards to try to make you flinch.
As for the call on the end, it is a no brainer. The only way you could lay down a set here would be if there were FOUR clubs on the board.