Im steping out on the limb

[stupidsucker]

For 6 months I am trying a different approach to poker. I have just prelaunched my own website that has virtualy no content thus far.

The purpose of the site is for those interested in backing me for the WSOP as well as my regular game. With this backing system I am setting up anyone can invest as little as $1 into my game.

I am posting the link to the site to get oppinions from anyone that cares to. I hope no one finds this to be spam. I am a regular poster after all, not a stranger. I also have plans to purchase a classified ad here at 2+2.

please be kind...but I need sugesstions and comments.


www.2xapoker.com (http://www.2xapoker.com)

[Apathy]

Not a terrible idea or anything, and I thought the 'donating a share to charity' thing was a good idea... but you kinda come off like the 'my play. brilliant imo' guy.

[The Yugoslavian]

Stupid is as stupid does.

Yugoslav

[Scuba Chuck]

So do you plan to pay "dividends" to your backers? How does a backer reap their return?

[Scuba Chuck]

Also, how do you plan to ensure the integrity of the investment? Will it be audited by a reputable source?

[octaveshift]

PM'd you.

[stupidsucker]

[ QUOTE ]
So do you plan to pay "dividends" to your backers? How does a backer reap their return?

[/ QUOTE ]

I have not mentioned the specifics on the website because they are not 100% formulated in my head or in text of any form just yet.

For this first session I wanted to keep it simple. At the end of the 6 months (July 1st-December 31st) The bankroll will be settled and everyone will be paid what is due or they can let it ride if I decided to give Session 2 a shot.

Unless I get a lot of support then the idea will die out, but all of my investors that gave me a shot will be well rewarded becuse I am including my regular game into the mix.

Its nearly a perfect investment because it has the chance to boom 100% profit and beyond, but because of my daily grind even if I bomb out of the wsop I will make the money back myself.

[octaveshift]

[ QUOTE ]
Also, how do you plan to ensure the integrity of the investment? Will it be audited by a reputable source?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes. The Kiwanagassashawnee Gaming Association has certified it Grade "AA"

*cough*

[Daliman]

Your middle name is gay.

[The Yugoslavian]

[ QUOTE ]
Your middle name is gay.

[/ QUOTE ]

His first name makes up for it. Plus the fact that he's obviously drugged in the pic is a plus too.

Yugoslav

[stupidsucker]

[ QUOTE ]
Also, how do you plan to ensure the integrity of the investment? Will it be audited by a reputable source?

[/ QUOTE ]

I dont really. We are talking about investing in gambling here. Instead of making false promises I plan on being bluntly honest with everyone. This IS gambling no matter what the skill level. There is never a 100%, but the bet is as safe it gets as long as you trust the individual.

In what ways can I realisticly insure integrity?

[stupidsucker]

[ QUOTE ]
Not a terrible idea or anything, and I thought the 'donating a share to charity' thing was a good idea... but you kinda come off like the 'my play. brilliant imo' guy.

[/ QUOTE ]

DO I come off too confident? or just as confident as a Professional should be?

I thought it would be a great idea to offer up charity purchases. I have to pick a good charity first. This way people can invest a buck for a good cause and feel a little better about gambling. Win Win situation for everyone involved.

[stupidsucker]

[ QUOTE ]
Your middle name is gay.

[/ QUOTE ]

Socially I use my Middle name as my First name.

[Daliman]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Your middle name is gay.

[/ QUOTE ]

Socially I use my Middle name as my First name.

[/ QUOTE ]
Even more gay as a first name

[The Yugoslavian]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Your middle name is gay.

[/ QUOTE ]

Socially I use my Middle name as my First name.

[/ QUOTE ]
Even more gay as a first name

[/ QUOTE ]

Ugh...I just looked at what his middle name is....bah!

Yes....I would say his middle name is about the gayest a name can possibly be. In fact, I'd go further and say that if someone has this middle name as their first name they are not only gay (and there's nothing wrong with that) they are also worthless, a crybaby, smell bad and are generally a complete idiot.

/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Yugoslav

[Phoenix1010]

[ QUOTE ]
Your middle name is gay.

[/ QUOTE ]

Weird, I always thought it was kind of a cool name. Could you point out some heterosexualer names?

[Blarg]

Is that like, Ich bin ein Berliner?

Ich bin ein Heterosexualer?

[Jman28]

[ QUOTE ]
Your middle name is gay.

[/ QUOTE ]

I love how Daliman is still a teenager.

No sarcasm there. I really love it. I hope I don't grow up to be boring.

[TheUsher]

Ok, I gotta admit that the whole idea is pretty cool, but I see some flaws in your site. Note, I am not a lawyer, or even someone that's capable of fully comprehending complete sentences /images/graemlins/wink.gif so take this with a grain of salt:

The whole "chip shares" and "investors" language that you keep on using can get you in big trouble. When I first read your site, I first thought of "uh oh Blue Sky". Here's a definition:

http://www.seclaw.com/bluesky.htm

Awhile back I heard of some people getting in trouble offering something else, so this may not even apply to you but it's something to think about. I'd bet you don't want some mean government employee with a stick up their ass giving you trouble. /images/graemlins/grin.gif Now to whomever feels like it, feel free to flame me if I misunderstood anything. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

P.S. I didn't even read that whole URL I posted to see the exemptions and stuff but I know that the government is getting stricter with offerings on the internet so I figured it's something worth noting.

Edit: BTW, what's that disclaimer they always use on the bottom of ads.. "Past results are not indicative of future performance". Might want to add that when you mentioned the 11% YTD figure. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[lacky]

with online play it is very easy to have a complete record of every table played, every tourney. Insuring integrity means having an accountant moniter your records to make sure your wins/loses are acurate and no funds are dissapearing. It doesn't mean insuring a win.

Steve

[Mr_Gordon]

[ QUOTE ]
Your middle name is gay.

[/ QUOTE ]I think the gayer thing is that it's what he used to name his website. I kid, I kid. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[Scuba Chuck]

[ QUOTE ]
Also, how do you plan to ensure the integrity of the investment? Will it be audited by a reputable source?


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



I dont really. We are talking about investing in gambling here. Instead of making false promises I plan on being bluntly honest with everyone. This IS gambling no matter what the skill level. There is never a 100%, but the bet is as safe it gets as long as you trust the individual.

In what ways can I realisticly insure integrity?

[/ QUOTE ]

I am asking these questions to help you. Not to cause problems. And there maybe a few of us who might make a small investment the first time (6 months) to "take a look." So here goes.

We all would like to think we live in a secure world with honest people, but it's just not true. How does someone who wants to make say a $5,000 investment know that the "investor" (you) is not dipping into the funds? The only way I could possibly see this being accomplished is via something like PT (which even I know is possible to be doctored).

Recognize I'm seperating the difference between losing money gambling, and stealing money.

[ QUOTE ]
Its nearly a perfect investment because it has the chance to boom 100% profit and beyond, but because of my daily grind even if I bomb out of the wsop I will make the money back myself.


[/ QUOTE ]

Coming from the investment world, do yourself a favor and never say the word perfect investment, or that you will make the money back. I'm sure you can come up with a better line.

On the dividend side, here's an easy example:
Assuming you have an 80% share of the pie. Whatever you withdraw for living/using expenses = "the dividend."

That being said, this sounds more like you want to have a 100% pool of capital with zero stupid sucker dollars. If that's the case, the arrangement sounds more like a Managed Futures product. Where they are paid a percent of the profits each month, if they are made, otherwise, not. Now that I've said that, I'm not sure if I'm as attracted to it, but it should give you some ideas.

I enjoy thinking through this financial arrangement you're dwelling on. If you'd like to talk about this more, assuming you'd be interested in some input, PM me.

Scuba

[Daliman]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Your middle name is gay.

[/ QUOTE ]

I love how Daliman is still a teenager.

No sarcasm there. I really love it. I hope I don't grow up to be boring.

[/ QUOTE ]
ARE YOU CALLING ME OLD?!? THAT'S IT! ME AND YOU AT THE BIKE RACK, AFTER SCHOOL!

[Voltron87]

You left your dali painted lunchbox in the gym, i'll give it to you at recess tomorrow.

[stupidsucker]

I am loving the input.

I was a little worried if what I was doing stretched the legal limits. Also worried that the average Joe would see this as nothing more then a scam. I expected most of my investors to be people I knew or was aquianted with via 2+2.

Perhaps I will make my first run a 3 month session instead of a 6 month session. Any other ideas that would make the deal seem safe? I will look into all of the typos and such people have pointed out as well.

[The Yugoslavian]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Your middle name is gay.

[/ QUOTE ]

Weird, I always thought it was kind of a cool name. Could you point out some heterosexualer names?

[/ QUOTE ]

Click on Dali's name and look at his info...

Yugoslav

[stupidsucker]

[ QUOTE ]
Click on Dali's name and look at his info...

[/ QUOTE ]

I knew he was bluffing!

[Scuba Chuck]

something just occurred to me. If you're only earning 11% on your money, you probably have too big of a bankroll.

[stupidsucker]

[ QUOTE ]
something just occurred to me. If you're only earning 11% on your money, you probably have too big of a bankroll.

[/ QUOTE ]

The purpose of this is to play from an inflated bankroll for the benefit of the masses. Reduces variance down to very little.

I have made a lot of changes already, but It needs a lot of work.

[Apathy]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
something just occurred to me. If you're only earning 11% on your money, you probably have too big of a bankroll.

[/ QUOTE ]

The purpose of this is to play from an inflated bankroll for the benefit of the masses. Reduces variance down to very little.

I have made a lot of changes already, but It needs a lot of work.

[/ QUOTE ]

Scuba makes a good point though, a 10-15% roi for your investors is pretty ridiculously low considering the inherent risk of giving people money over the internet. Why are you using a 100,000 BR if you aren't planning on playing step5s and 1k multis? Or you could keep playing low-mid limits but reduce the size of your BR... What is your "regular" game anyways?

[Phoenix1010]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Your middle name is gay.

[/ QUOTE ]

Weird, I always thought it was kind of a cool name. Could you point out some heterosexualer names?

[/ QUOTE ]

Click on Dali's name and look at his info...

Yugoslav

[/ QUOTE ]

lol. Got it. I was considering it as a (very far in the) future baby name, and now my feelings are unhurt. It means enlightened, if I remember correctly.

[Phill S]

Its an interesting idea.

Heres my take on the idea, and site specifically.

Ok, site first:

The look isnt amazing, and im sure you know this. The little things, such as not naming pages page1, page2 etc go a long way. I know this will be brushed up on.

Like has been said already, you need to expand massively on your details. What do you play, how long you've been pro for and so on.

Doint skimp on details; especially about your WSOP shot, how did you qualify (or if my assumption is right, your gonna just buy in?). Do you have much experience with big MTTs? The WSOP (and potential returns) will be one of the bigger selling points, build on it.

Set up a blog. Post daily, reports on play. Give investors daily information on what your doing.

Post your username in the site(s) you play (do it anonomously to the individual investors if needs be) - let them come watch you play. Let them see you taking down the money (or not as the case will often be).

Refering to yourself in both the first, and 3rd person, in the same sentence, makes little baby Jesus shed a tear.

Bring in someone who can code to re-do the site (im guessing your doing this already, you posted a thread regarding this not to long back if memory serves, though i didnt read it).

The idea:

First off, i like it. Its a new (as far as im aware) way to look at being backed.

As for charities, its a novel idea, but as a cynic, it wont happen. If i had say $10 to give to charity, why gamble it first, then donate it?

Charity idea: Gamblers Anonomous - i mean this only as a half jopke, i am quite serious that this is the better charity to choose. However their actions mixed in with the idea you have, well, leaves a bitter taste in my mouth.

Use summit with puppies. People love the puppies.

When the details become clearer, ill know more. How about you bring in more MTT sorta players? Your grinding can offset their losses, and if one hits it big, then its a major payout all round.

Would i invest?

On the face of what i know now. Err, no. No offense Jason, i have known you through these threads for a long while now, i know your good, and i know its a good solid investment. But at 11% as youve posted, and a peak of around 20%, i can make more dollar to dollar playing myself at the lower stakes.

The swinger for me would be if i thought you were a possible for cashing at the WSOP (or any other major tourney). So far, as much as i believe SnG play equates to good MTT play, it still has to be proven.

Prove my assumptions wrong, and you get some of my coin.

Good luck with your endevour.

Phill

[microbet]

[ QUOTE ]
People love the puppies.

[/ QUOTE ]

Great idea. Tell people whenever you don't reach your investment goal for the day you will drown a puppy. Make sure you have lots of pictures of puppies, some of them X'ed out.

[Phill S]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
People love the puppies.

[/ QUOTE ]

Great idea. Tell people whenever you don't reach your investment goal for the day you will drown a puppy. Make sure you have lots of pictures of puppies, some of them X'ed out.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not quite where i was going. But whilst it didnt work for Microsofts ill fated ME promotion* the puppy killing unless you buy from us routine might work for you.

Tell people if they dont fold to your blind steals youll kill Bouncer. Now theres an investment model id buy into.

Phill

*So many puppies died that year, i know it was bad, but you coulda thought of the puppies damn it!

[stupidsucker]

[ QUOTE ]
The look isnt amazing, and im sure you know this. The little things, such as not naming pages page1, page2 etc go a long way. I know this will be brushed up on.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have never created a website before, and I did that one in 1 day. One of the plans was to have the site professionaly done, but better to start out small.

[ QUOTE ]
Doint skimp on details

[/ QUOTE ]
Im trying to get in as much as I can.

[ QUOTE ]
Set up a blog. Post daily, reports on play. Give investors daily information on what your doing.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yesterday was the first blog/report.

[ QUOTE ]
Post your username in the site(s) you play (do it anonomously to the individual investors if needs be) - let them come watch you play. Let them see you taking down the money

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought about this, and the big investors will have this info, but my tables would just be a circus othereise.

[ QUOTE ]
Refering to yourself in both the first, and 3rd person, in the same sentence, makes little baby Jesus shed a tear.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ya, ill try to fix the messes. Please keep info like this coming.

[ QUOTE ]
First off, i like it. Its a new (as far as im aware) way to look at being backed.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think that I am marketing it wrong. I really want this to be a fun thing for people rather then a way to make money off of me.
[ QUOTE ]
As for charities, its a novel idea, but as a cynic, it wont happen

[/ QUOTE ]

I threw it in there because of all of the charities that pros play for all the time. Phil Gordan has a charity called "Put a Bad Beat on Cancer". Players are asked to donate a % of their winnings to it and other charities.

[ QUOTE ]
How about you bring in more MTT sorta players?

[/ QUOTE ]

Part of the future plans are to include a few pros with different talents. All of this stuff is ground floor.

[ QUOTE ]
i can make more dollar to dollar playing myself at the lower stakes.


[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I think I am marketing this wrong. I want people to want to throw down $100 bucks and hope for a big score, and have a personal player to root for. For their trouble they not only get to follow my daily grind, they also get a piece of it to cancle out the variance from the wsop.

I will be making no promises to make anyone rich here. I just want to give them a good poker ride. The best way to do that is to just build the site and hope people have interest in what I do.