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Maurader1

05-07-2005, 11:50 PM

Villain is 44/3

Getting 3-bet on the turn gave me shivers...

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
2 folds, UTG+2 calls, 2 folds, MP3 calls, CO calls, Button calls, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (6 SB) J/images/graemlins/club.gif, 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif (6 players)
Hero bets, BB folds, UTG+2 calls, MP3 raises, CO folds, Button folds, Hero 3-bets, UTG+2 calls, MP3 caps, Hero calls, UTG+2 calls.

Turn: (9 BB) J/images/graemlins/spade.gif (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG+2 checks, MP3 bets, Hero raises, UTG+2 folds, MP3 3-bets, Hero calls.

River: (15 BB) 9/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, MP3 bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 17 BB

ArturiusX

05-07-2005, 11:53 PM

I think your turn raise is pretty bad, and I'll show you why.

The relative position for UTG+2 is inbetween you and mp3. We're 90% sure MP3 will raise, so we're better off betting, leting UTG call, then having it raise behind us. That way, we trap more dead money from UTG for the same betting.

So other then the check-raise, I probably call a turn raise if I bet out, check/call river looks good.

@bsolute_luck

05-07-2005, 11:57 PM

yes you were. what were you trying to do on the turn? unless he was capping the street with 68, you're screwed. you lose to a full house and a flush!

my thought? lead out the turn, if raised fold. i think that might be the WA/WB line everyone keeps talking about /images/graemlins/crazy.gif

edit: due to looking at the hand again, pot may be big enough to call and hope 1 of the 3 remaining Qs comes in. /images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Maurader1

05-08-2005, 12:01 AM

after showing down a few hands with villain previously, and seeing him bet Ax, I could almost feel that he was playing a J with a worse kicker, or a lower set

I see the value of trapping the caller in between, but I don't think I would be folding to a raise - but I'm just a calling station like that...

fluxrad

05-08-2005, 12:04 AM

[ QUOTE ]

my thought? lead out the turn, if raised fold. i think that might be the WA/WB line everyone keeps talking about

[/ QUOTE ]

WTF? Is there something I'm missing here? Hero's got 10 outs to what will likely be the best boat (or better) on the turn. How can he fold for one more bet?

@bsolute_luck

05-08-2005, 12:05 AM

[ QUOTE ]
after showing down a few hands with villain previously, and seeing him bet Ax, I could almost feel that he was playing a J with a worse kicker, or a lower set

I see the value of trapping the caller in between, but I don't think I would be folding to a raise - but I'm just a calling station like that...

[/ QUOTE ]

bolded: wish we knew that at the start
red: we're still losing to this. still shouldn't c/r the turn.

SoftcoreRevolt

05-08-2005, 12:08 AM

If villain has a set, hero is royally screwed on that turn.

Maurader1

05-08-2005, 12:10 AM

ohhh crap....riiiight....I should stop smoking crack...

@bsolute_luck

05-08-2005, 12:11 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

my thought? lead out the turn, if raised fold. i think that might be the WA/WB line everyone keeps talking about

[/ QUOTE ]

WTF? Is there something I'm missing here? Hero's got 10 outs to what will likely be the best boat (or better) on the turn. How can he fold for one more bet?

[/ QUOTE ]

please read my edit on my post, which, for clarifying, was there prior to your post. read the entire thing.

Ps, where do you get 10 outs?

Aaron W.

05-08-2005, 01:11 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Villain is 44/3

[/ QUOTE ]

Hero needs to read this (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Number=2302308&page=&view=&s b=5&o=) and bookmark it so that he can read it again and again. This stat gives you basically *NO* information about how you should play your hand.

fluxrad

05-08-2005, 01:25 AM

[ QUOTE ]
please read my edit on my post, which, for clarifying, was there prior to your post. read the entire thing.

Ps, where do you get 10 outs?

[/ QUOTE ]

I didn't see the edit on your last post.

--- edit ---

Sorry. Make it 7 outs on the turn ( any Q or J and probably either one of the three 6's or 8's ). Still good enough to call one more bet.

PokerBob

05-08-2005, 01:31 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Villain is 44/3

Getting 3-bet on the turn gave me shivers...

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
2 folds, UTG+2 calls, 2 folds, MP3 calls, CO calls, Button calls, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (6 SB) J/images/graemlins/club.gif, 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif (6 players)
Hero bets, BB folds, UTG+2 calls, MP3 raises, CO folds, Button folds, Hero 3-bets, UTG+2 calls, MP3 caps, Hero calls, UTG+2 calls.

Turn: (9 BB) J/images/graemlins/spade.gif (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG+2 checks, MP3 bets, Hero raises, UTG+2 folds, MP3 3-bets, Hero calls.

River: (15 BB) 9/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, MP3 bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 17 BB

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't like your turn c/r. The J is a good card for you, but the fact that it is a /images/graemlins/spade.gif sucks. To me, all of the flop action looks like (a) a flush draw or (b) a set. I would call 1 bet on each street the rest of the way unless I improved.