Anyone Else Get Annoyed By This........

[avalanche201]

I play mostly single table tourneys on UB. Everytime we get down to 4 people there is always that player that is so tight that he essentially blinds himself out. In any situation with good players he would be good as dead, but NO, the big stack or even someone else always decides their gonna double him up. He is so tight he probably couldent pinch a pencil, but they decide to call him with middle pair when he (the rock) goes in. Its like DO YOU LIKE MONEY OR NOT? Let them blind out and be forced to go in on 26, not thier trips..............And then who usually ends up going out instead ..........ME!

[dfscott]

Sounds like you're not playing aggressively enough on the bubble. I love this situation...

Edit: Ok, maybe not if he's on my immediate left.

[Misfire]

It might be in the big stack's interest to keep the bubble going so he can keep stealing chips from the middle stacks who are just trying to stay in.

[Blarg]

I sometimes feel this way in this kind of situation:

The blinds are 150/300 and it's either three or four handed. The big blind is a monster stack, and the short stack has 380 and is UTG. He raises to 380 and the big blind folds.

[raptor517]

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The blinds are 150/300 and it's either three or four handed. The big blind is a monster stack, and the short stack has 380 and is UTG. He raises to 380 and the big blind folds.

[/ QUOTE ]

this is a higher level play that people dont take advantage of NEARLY enough. keeping the short stack alive can REALLY help the roi. holla

[avalanche201]

Ohh i forgot this is a message board the only reason someone answers is to dissagree with you. Its in the big stacks best intrest to keep the small stacks around? I know my strategy when leading a tournament is to not knock people out, yeah just keep them around instead of getting to the money before i really get crazy. I mean come on thats just lame. Dont douple up the rock short stack. YOU CANT bluff him out of his last 500 chips, so dont try. HES A ROCK trying to beat him with middle pair is a loosing proposition. Dont get me wrong i have no problem coin flipping trying to be agressive and knock people out, but dont call or bluff when its so obvious your beat. MINIMIZE YOUR LOSES TO THE SHORT STACK SO YOU CAN GET TO THE MONEY. When played properly these things take an hour, when misplayed they take two.

[bones]

Wb desdia.

[Misfire]

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Ohh i forgot this is a message board the only reason someone answers is to dissagree with you.

[/ QUOTE ]

When you're wrong, yeah, they tend to do that.

[ QUOTE ]
Its in the big stacks best intrest to keep the small stacks around? I know my strategy when leading a tournament is to not knock people out, yeah just keep them around instead of getting to the money before i really get crazy. I mean come on thats just lame.

[/ QUOTE ]

The big stack is keeping the bubble alive because people like you are so absolutely terrified of not making the money that you'll gladly donate your blinds when he tries to push you around--he then becomes the much bigger stack and further solidifies his chances of getting first.

[ QUOTE ]
And then who usually ends up going out instead ..........ME!

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[Phoenix1010]

You have some misconceptions. It's understandable, as keeping the shortstack alive is a high level play. It's also a play that absolutely does not work at lower buy-ins, so if that's all you play, don't worry about it.

It is a play that works very well in certain situations, and if you search the forum you can probably figure out why.

I'll give a hint though: If people usually tighten up when there's a shortstack on the bubble, and you have a large stack so you can steal blinds without being really afraid of busting out, why would you be in a rush to end the bubble?

[avalanche201]

I dont think you got the hint of my sarcasim in there. I dont think you should ever knowingly double someone up thats just stupid. And I love the assumption that Im the one being tight and thats why im going out. If this were the case wouldent I be the short stack getting doubled up?? NO actually if youve ever played one of these this is how it goes, the guy whos real hot has about 5000, two of us have around 2500 to 3000 (me), and one has about 800 (the rock). Some one always doubles up the small guy and then they arent that far behind us. What usually happens to me after sitting here trying to make the money and making moves, I try to steal and get caught (something you must do to not become that rock). With the blinds being so big if you make a raise of 3or 4x the bb is a big part of your stack, then someone goes over the top all in and you have to fold. That is the lamest assumption, and you know what assumptions do. But as i said it is a message board.

I just hate when people double up the rock short stack because they are trying to bluff them or are calling on middle pair when they are most certainly beat. This likens itself to another "mostly unknown" rule that in tournaments if someone is all in you just check unless you have the nut, as the point is to just make sure someone exits the tournament. You dont knowingly keep someone in a tournament! The point is to go as far as possible.

[jcm4ccc]

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keeping the shortstack alive is a high level play. It's also a play that absolutely does not work at lower buy-ins, so if that's all you play, don't worry about it.


[/ QUOTE ]

Wrong. I've used it many times successfully at the lower level. Even the lower levels can recognize that someone has almost no chips on the bubble.

[bones]

I'm not sure how many different ways you want to be told that you're wrong here. If your mind was made up and you didn't want discussion, then title your post "Bitching and moaning, don't attempt to help me."

[Lefthander]

To be fair, OP didn't title his post "Trying to understand bubble play." He just wants to be annoyed by it.

[Phoenix1010]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
keeping the shortstack alive is a high level play. It's also a play that absolutely does not work at lower buy-ins, so if that's all you play, don't worry about it.


[/ QUOTE ]

Wrong. I've used it many times successfully at the lower level. Even the lower levels can recognize that someone has almost no chips on the bubble.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you find a great table for this and use it effectively, more power to you. If you're counting on having a lot of fold equity at the average 10+1, even with someone at perhaps 3xBB, you're making a mistake. Especially since there is only 8000 chips in play, so the advantage you can build up is much lower than what you can get in the 10,000 chips games.

Edit: I just realized that the OP was speaking of UB SnG's, which have larger starting chips stacks IIRC, so this does not apply to his statement. I'm assuming the person I'm responding to is talking about the Party SnG's. If not, then this does not apply.

[beeyjay]

ha if you said party and not UB I would be pretty sure that this was directed at me being the one doubling him up.

[beeyjay]

Thats the best play possible by the BB in most if not almost all situations.

[beeyjay]

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And then who usually ends up going out instead ..........ME!


[/ QUOTE ]
heres why people are telling you you're wrong. you are probably one of the guys that keeps telling me how much I suck as I go on to win effortlessly playing exactly the way you complained about.

[beeyjay]

who you gonna bluff if youre not going to bluff the rock?

[xPuns1her]

Yeah, that pisses the hell out of me. I find it halarious when a player is in the BB for everything and gets AA and then you bust. It happens quite often actually (not to me of course).