need help with letting go of KK

[Maurader1]

BB is super loose, don't need to worry about him
UTG+1 is slightly loose, MP1 is tight/passive

MP1 calling the cap pf concerned me...

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (9 handed)

converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 raises</font>, MP1 calls, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, BB calls, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 caps</font>, MP1 calls, Hero calls, BB calls.

Flop: (16.50 SB) 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 5/images/graemlins/club.gif, 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 raises</font>, MP1 calls, Hero??

[Redd]

UTG+1 raises many hands that you beat here. I 3-bet for value, prepared to call a cap, then reevaluate on the turn based on the action.

At any rate, I would assume you're likely ahead at this point, and wouldn't worry too much about the cold call yet.

[Emmitt2222]

Never let go maurader, never let go... well at least not right now. Not folding big pocket pairs when you know you are beat can be a problem, but right now that is not the case. You most likely have the best hand in a HUGE pot, you want to raise for value and see how much the other players really like their hands. If it is capped by BB I probably call down from there depending on what developes. If UTG+1 caps I may raise the turn, more likely putting him on JJ, QQ, or KK than AA just because there are more combinations. If UTG+1 3bet the turn then I call down and if the other two just slow down to the flop 3bet I just keep betting.

[cold_cash]

I would call and probably raise the turn.

Folding would suck.

Also, you don't include any kind of read on the guy doing all the betting and capping. That might be relevent.

[Maurader1]

Sorry, that read was for UTG+1, edited...

Hero calls, BB calls

In the heat of the action, I went for the overcall by BB instead of raising for information which I realize is a mistake now

Turn: (12.25 BB) 7/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 bets</font>, MP1 calls, Hero??

[cold_cash]

Raise it.

[Redd]

[ QUOTE ]
Raise it.

[/ QUOTE ]

[Shillx]

I would coldcall or 3-bet here. I kinda like coldcalling in just a 4 handed pot and I don't like folding one bit.

[Maurader1]

Wow, am I very weak for wanting to call in this spot?

I am probably misapplying the WA/WB concept...

Hero calls, BB calls

River: (16.25 BB) Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
BB checks, UTG+1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 bets</font>, Hero??

Can I fold now? Please?

[Shillx]

You underplayed your hand. You have to call this. He could just have a pair of queens.

[Maurader1]

Naturally I called since I've been reading the forums here...but would AQ really call a pf cap for two bets? I thought QQ was a possibility, but still, I called.

AA shown by MP1 and UTG+1 folded, and I go crazy and second guess myself on every street.

On flop, I think I should have 3-bet and folded the turn if it was capped, otherwise I'd be calling down like I did

[toss]

Don't you think thats a little results oriented?

[cold_cash]

[ QUOTE ]
On flop, I think I should have 3-bet and folded the turn if it was capped, otherwise I'd be calling down like I did

[/ QUOTE ]

So you 3-bet the flop, UTG+1 caps and then leads the turn, and you fold? Boo/hiss.

The pot's a lunker by that point. Unless the action gets really, really wild, (way more wild than a flop cap and a turn bet), you need to show this down.

He'll have TT-QQ enough of the time, and you'll hit a miracle King enough of the time.

[Redd]

[ QUOTE ]
I kinda like coldcalling in just a 4 handed pot...

[/ QUOTE ]

How does the four handed pot affect things here? Are you saying that a 3-bet is bad because it may cause more people to fold?

[Maurader1]

Extremely so, but just wanted to post this to see if I am way off base or not.

[Maurader1]

if capped on flop, and one bet to me on turn, I would probably still call, and feel bad about it

if UTG+1 bets and MP1 raises, I'd fold and be happy (I think) even though the pot is huge

It just feels creepy when MP1 is cold calling and I have not seen him do anything "stupid" beforehand

[Maurader1]

I'm almost afraid to ask this, but can WA/WB be applied here, even though the pot is multi-way?

[cold_cash]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm almost afraid to ask this, but can WA/WB be applied here, even though the pot is multi-way?

[/ QUOTE ]

No.

You might be way behind, but with 3 opponents if you're actually ahead they could have a ton of outs against you.

If UTG+1 had a smaller pair you would have had him crushed, but the other two guys could each have at least a 5-outer.

[scotty34]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm almost afraid to ask this, but can WA/WB be applied here, even though the pot is multi-way?

[/ QUOTE ]

No.

You might be way behind, but with 3 opponents if you're actually ahead they could have a ton of outs against you.

If UTG+1 had a smaller pair you would have had him crushed, but the other two guys could each have at least a 5-outer.

[/ QUOTE ]

Correct. Also, I just wanted to add, don't ever be scared to ask anything like that. It's not something that can be easily found doing a search, and it can be a tough concept to understand. If anyone has a snappy or sarcastic comeback, ignore them, they are being retarded.

[bottomset]

stop trying to find folds

play to win pots

[davelin]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I kinda like coldcalling in just a 4 handed pot...

[/ QUOTE ]

How does the four handed pot affect things here? Are you saying that a 3-bet is bad because it may cause more people to fold?

[/ QUOTE ]

Not to put words in Brad's mouth but I believe it's because you can't protect your hand against anyone. I normally 3-bet three but cold-calling may be the superior play in order to see what the other opponents do.

[Grail]

Raise this flop, then either call down, or try 1 more raise on the turn. You have far to much pot equity to fold anywhere in this hand.

You probubly can't protect your hand, or improve your winning chances much after caping this flop. A Turn raise might help some, but given this action it's unlikely anyone is folding this anywhere.

[jrz1972]

[ QUOTE ]
Can I fold now? Please?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm speechless. You have an overpair to the board, the pot is huge, and you want to fold for one more bet on the river?

You will absolutely never be a winning poker player with this attitude. Seriously.

[Maurader1]

well I mean, I called because I *know* it's the correct thing to do, since the pot is so huge, but am I the only one that feels like I'm going to be beat a huge amount of the time? or is this just MUMB and weak tightness?

It's just that playing with the tight players at 1/2, and reading the posts about how rockish they are, I am tending to not want to call these hands, almost knowing I am beat. Maybe I am just having a bunch of bad runs, and making mistakes too I'm sure, but it's making me pee my pants when my premium hands are getting beat by even better hands over and over again...[/rant]

[Grail]

Your getting about 15-1 to call here. So you only need to win 6% of the time for this to be +EV.

Yes your beaten the vast majority of the time, but I think at least 1 out of 15 times you get lucky and drag this pot.