Drunken, must straddle 2+2 game at Canterbury in peril

[BigBaitsim (milo)]

Was pulled aside by a manager at CP the other day. Apparently, the floor staff have decided that the drunken 2+2 games are not welcome at CP. I think they are willing to be flexible, but I want to give voice to their concerns. It is possible something could be worked out. In no particular order:

1. The games are disruptive to the cardroom.

2. The games require increased staff attention, detracting from their ability to maintain a smoothly running room.

3. Players violate basic rules (i.e. talking about hands), and dealers who are being WAY tipped well are unwilling to enforce the rules.

4. Dougie gets WAY too drunk (okay, they mentioned no specific names, I'm ad-libbing here).

CP's suggestions (in order):

1. Move the drunken game to someone's house. (I think we could hire a CP dealer, but it would be strictly "don't ask, don't tell").

2. Play at 4:00 a.m., long after the bar is closed.

Milo's suggestions:

We agree to some basic ground rules, and present them to CP. While I think they are way on the picky side about the rules there, I also think these rules are the reason CP is such a smoothly running room. I think there must be some middle ground here (plus, I'm pissed because I missed the last game, and want there to be another).

[nolanfan34]

The solution to this is simple. When you're there on normal nights, mention to the dealers what's happening. Somehow I think if their tips are in jeopardy they might collectively try to convince management otherwise.

**disclaimer** - I have not been to Cbury, or seen Dougie drunk, so maybe my option isn't even possible.

[BigBaitsim (milo)]

The dealers prolly know, but have little say in the matter. As a group, the dealers love the game, but this is a well-run cardroom, not likely to buckle to dealer bitching.

[NLSoldier]

WTF? Did I recently miss one of these?

[Andy B]

There was an all-2+2 game at Bob T's house last summer. These mopes hardly drank at all. Why the same crew would want to pay Canterbury rake and Canterbury drink prices to do this is beyond me.

[Schneids]

Last night me, Mike C, Kirby, Andy and Keith played drunken 4/8. I heard one of the floor guys say to an off-the-clock dealer "I thought we banned this kind of game" but he was watching and laughing and he let it go on and even took part in sweating one of Andy's hands.

Does "the other day" = this afternoon by any chance?

[MEbenhoe]

This is ridiculous. We're making Canterbury money in many ways off of this game.

1. Increased rake due to consistently large pots
2. Dealers and service staff make much more money in tips
3. Our game attracts a crowd which keeps people sticking around longer in the room and likely spending money
4. People see how much fun we're having and it encourages them to gamble it up on their tables creating high rake again.

In regards to the reasons they gave:

1. Our "disruptive" behavior is no worse than normal disruptive yelling canterbury players. The only difference is that we draw a crowd, which wouldn't be a problem if they'd put us off in a corner.

2. These games do not require increased attention if the floor was not so uptight. The night I was there the floor came over several times, yet no player and no dealer complained once. If the floor stopped being so uptight all would be fine. Plus they didn't seem too concerned when Doug gave them a tip to leave. Shows where there priorities are.

3. The part about us violating rules is just plain untrue. This was a rare occurence at this game, and happened at a slightly larger frequency than at a normal table, nothing to get worked up about.

Basically this is complete BS. We're making them and everyone involved with their cardroom more money than they make any other night of the year, and they're going to complain about it. Then they suggest we play at 4 am? Yeah that seems really reasonable.

I hope Annie reads this and can put in a word for us, because this is ridiculous.

[whiskeytown]

ok...excuse me - quick question

How the HELL do you get drunk at Canterbury? - I mean sure...if you load up beforehand or take a flask of Jameson into a stall every 30 min....

But once there, the drink limit pretty much tosses drunk behavior out the window.

In fact, I don't see how anyone could get drunk out there - jeez - what a bunch of [censored] lightweights.

I have seen it happen, but I have NO idea how - now, on the other hand, on my first night at the MGM, when the waitress made my third shot about 5 times larger then the first two, that could get me drunk easily enough /images/graemlins/grin.gif

RB

[whiskeytown]

excuse me...

who brought a pint of Jim Bean and dropped a chip into it? -
thank you....I did my part...not my fault everyone's a lightweight.

RB

[Andy B]

My comment wasn't directed at you. You haven't been playing in these drunken magoo-fests at CP, have you? Seems to me that you and I were the big drinkers at Bob's house, and I wouldn't say that I was throwing down.

[bicyclekick]

I agree so actually taht it should be moved...but here is my responses to their feelings...which I think are retarded.

1. Only in a good gamb00ling sense.

2. Nobody ever needs the staff's help. Please.

3. exactly. they're getting tipped to stfu and everyone at the table is happy, who cares?

4. Yeah, doug does get sloppy.

re their suggestions:

1. They are so right...this game needs to take place at a place other than canterbury. Maybe I jsut think this cause I haven't been able to get to canterbury much cause I'm away at school...but when I play there, I typically want to play serious. Also, why the hell do we want to pay so much rake and tips. I'm too damn stingy. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

I think i'm going to buy about 10 racks of white so I can properly have homegames like this. (ok ok everyone wont get their own 10 rakcs, but if you're really that picky, you can buy them at cburry yourself.

2. without alcohol it would be too boring/stupid.

Maybe I'm getting too old (jk...more like too lame)...but you just can't overdo these drunken retard fests. Everyonce in a great while is amusing...but anything more than once or twice a year makes them boring imo.

I'll be moving into an apartment in the cities in a week and there is a good chance I'll be hosting a weekly game. Probably something like $2/4 dealers choice or a $1/2 blind NL game. No rake/profit of course. Just lots of drinkin/playin. PM for more info.

[whiskeytown]

no -

quite frankly, I don't have the BR to play a drunk magoo fest - I'm not raking in 50K/month -

and it's not my thing - I don't play 5 bets blind - there is nothing in my ego that needs to be stroked by showing I can give money away to others

I wasn't actually that far gone that night, but I had been up about 22 hrs. when I realized I misread a hand and had to go home.

RB

[Andy B]

If you alternate among your server, the bar, and upstairs, you could probably do it.

[bicyclekick]

or if you're a lightweight like me.

[Andy B]

And upstairs will let you buy more than one at a time. Not that I want to encourage drunken loutish behavior or anything.

[whiskeytown]

my days of puking/driving home drunk after a card game were over a few months ago -

I've learned to moderate when I do go overboard - but truth is, I'm not liking it much lately

RB

[NLSoldier]

I agree with having it take place somewhere other than canterbury...

First of all because I cant drink there, and 2nd of all because if I did happen to be drunk there I'd probably end up tipping Liz like $200 for a pizza instead of the usual $20 /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[gonores]

[ QUOTE ]
Maybe I'm getting too old (jk...more like too lame)...but you just can't overdo these drunken retard fests.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed. Twice a year is more than enough.

[ QUOTE ]
I think i'm going to buy about 10 racks of white so I can properly have homegames like this.

[/ QUOTE ]

For me, this defeats the whole purpose. The greatest part of these maniacal nights is putting the smack down on 3/6 all-stars. All 2+2ers is fine, and you kids are great, but giving lessons in big-pot post-flop play is essential to my entertainment.

[ QUOTE ]
4. Yeah, doug does get sloppy.

[/ QUOTE ]

OK, I'll admit I was at a point between drunk and too drunk, but WAY too drunk is an overstatement. You people seem to underestimate my eccentricity and outgoingness when I am sober and my "fun" switch is turned on. Ask Schneider or MEBenhoe or someone else who has had to deal with sober gonores for a length of time..."calm" doesn't describe me. More proof I wasn't shitfaced? Check the original carnage report (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=gossip&Number=1433332&Foru m=All_Forums&Words=carnage&Searchpage=0&Limit=25&M ain=1433332&Search=true&where=bodysub&Name=1831&da terange=1&newerval=6&newertype=m&olderval=&olderty pe=&bodyprev=#Post1433332) ...I was doing the praying mantis less than 2 hours after my first beer (maybe on beer #3 or so....still way too low for me to feel anything). Furthermore, I remembered basically the whole night. Was I knocking over stacks of chips? Yeah. Was I loud? Yeah. Was I hitting on anything with a vagina? No. Was I directly insulting strangers or starting fights? No. I don't think cutting down my drinks substantially would fix anything in and of itself.

[gonores]

[ QUOTE ]
1. Increased rake due to consistently large pots

[/ QUOTE ]

Cmon dude....think this one through before you try to use it as your leadoff argument.

[ QUOTE ]
3. The part about us violating rules is just plain untrue.

[/ QUOTE ]

I dunno...I sure remember advising everyone at the table as to what action to take when the action came to them, announcing my hole cards during the hand, and sweating other players when I was out of the hand. I don't think I was the only one.

[gonores]

[ QUOTE ]
there is nothing in my ego that needs to be stroked by showing I can give money away to others


[/ QUOTE ]

If you're insinuating that we donate money to other players in that game just to prove that we can, you can go [censored] yourself. There is a big difference between playing like a retard and playing like a maniac preflop and playing good big pot poker post-flop. My best guess is that if we tipped normally, team 2+2 was up a bit on the first night, and probably would have been up on night two if we didn't run terribly.

If you have a beef with with tipping big, meh, whatever. I think big tips are necessary to keep us in favor with the powers that be.

[BigBaitsim (milo)]

I must admit, on quiet and somber reflection, that Doug began acting like a lunatic long before he was actually intoxicated. Of course, his actions did get a touch more extreme once toasty. No disrespect was intended. Doug is one of the highlights of the game.

[BigBaitsim (milo)]

[ QUOTE ]
Last night me, Mike C, Kirby, Andy and Keith played drunken 4/8. I heard one of the floor guys say to an off-the-clock dealer "I thought we banned this kind of game" but he was watching and laughing and he let it go on and even took part in sweating one of Andy's hands.

Does "the other day" = this afternoon by any chance?

[/ QUOTE ]

The other day was last weekend.

And next time you do this, PM me or something. I hate missing these games, and I'm only 20 minutes from CP.

[Edge34]

I'm not really surprised this happened...but the fact that they didn't say anything until now is pretty messed.

One table, max rake every time for them, dealers getting paid well...its sounding to me like some 30/60 regulars with sticks up their asses might have put in some complaints. I know that we can be kind of loud/disruptive sometimes, but part of a casino atmosphere is having fun like that, isn't it?

There's got to be more to the story than a few of us coming in and getting loud and gambooooooling. I really hope we can find out from someone like Annie in this thread just what's going on...either that or I'll ask her next time I see her out there, which will probably be inside 2 weeks...

I don't want our magoo-fests banned, but then again, it WAS mentioned in the first trip report that people have gotten banned from that type of game before....I'm not sure whether to be pissed or proud... /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[tek]

I only play tourneys at CP so I don't know the staff, but it seems that there are a lot of new personnel. Maybe one of them is behind it. One of the new floor guys looks about 24 y/o and walks around like deputy fife /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[BottlesOf]

I think this is the funniest thread I've read in a long time. I can't imagine how you guys got so out of control that the card room asked you guys not to play your action filled massively over-tipping game in their establishment. I love it.

One question though, did you have a private game/table, or just a bunch of you sit at a normal table and the other ppl either join in or leave?

I don't quite get the comment made by someone else in this thread (I think Schneids) about overhearing a floorperson making a comment to the effect of "I thought we didnt' allow these kinds of games anymore?" Exactly what types of games?
Games with player playing badly? How can they enforce that? Games with insane styraddling? Fine, then outlaw straddling or double straddling. Games with loud drunken players? Then ban loud or obviously drunk players. It just bothers me that the floor sees people having a good time and tries to stop it. If the game is unruly or disruptive, then enforce rules to keep it orderly, but I don't see how they can ban some nebulous "type" of game.

[chrisdhal]

This is Minnesota. We don't like too much excitement. We also don't like to rock the boat too much. If it makes other people nervous, we generally shouldn't do it. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

The December game was just about the funniest thing I had ever seen and I left early. These are at regular tables with other people in them. Part of the allure is to bust the 3/6 pros (especially ones with crews).

Please note that I haven't actually played in these. I suck and it was more fun to watch /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Edge34]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't quite get the comment made by someone else in this thread (I think Schneids) about overhearing a floorperson making a comment to the effect of "I thought we didnt' allow these kinds of games anymore?" Exactly what types of games?
Games with player playing badly? How can they enforce that? Games with insane styraddling? Fine, then outlaw straddling or double straddling. Games with loud drunken players? Then ban loud or obviously drunk players. It just bothers me that the floor sees people having a good time and tries to stop it. If the game is unruly or disruptive, then enforce rules to keep it orderly, but I don't see how they can ban some nebulous "type" of game.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is exactly the reasoning that makes me think it was some 30/60 nit regular that decided to bitch about us while they were trying to "work".

I know for a fact that while a very small number of the unsuspecting "victims" that sit with us have complained a little bit, all of them had fun, and we've even convinced a few others to gambooooool with us. This is a shame if the establishment decides it doesn't want us having a good time and paying them to provide the table, cards, and chips...

[gonores]

This is how you get ban threats (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=gossip&Number=1433332&Foru m=All_Forums&Words=carnage&Searchpage=0&Limit=25&M ain=1433332&Search=true&where=bodysub&Name=1831&da terange=1&newerval=6&newertype=m&olderval=&olderty pe=&bodyprev=#Post1433332)

I'm pretty sure the big problem was that security was convinced there was menacing Praying Mantis on the loose somewhere in the poker room, even though the floor continually told them it was just the consummate poker pro from Madtown.

Although in this case, I may play the race card. Damn cardroom management always trying to keep crackers like me down.

[gonores]

After thinking about it, I have to admit that we set a pretty bad precedent. It would be awful to witness what the mid-limit regulars would interpret as "good, clean, drunken fun, just like those a-hole kids had the other night." I think we, as a group, need to realize that we're the ringleaders when we set foot in a card room, and that our actions have profound effects on the Canterbury clientele. Management would seriously have their hands tied if some tactless cock clown (I HAVE PEOPLE SKILLS!!!) and his buds decided to mimic 2+2 behavior and push the envelope in a different direction.

That being said, I don't see anything wrong with showing up and doing what we always do until someone has the balls and the interity to enforce new policy. If push comes to shove, I have no qualms falling on the ax and getting kicked out for rowdiness.

[BottlesOf]

I read that when you first posted it, I enjoyed reading it again tremendously. Are you coming to Vegas the weekend of the 17th? We need you there.

[gonores]

Sorry, I am needed right here in my own back yard. I will be entertaining a cooler group of 2+2ers for a 4-day golf vacation, after which FSUPlayer and I will be headed to Vegas on June 21.

[BottlesOf]

[ QUOTE ]
I will be entertaining a cooler group of 2+2ers

[/ QUOTE ]

Not the case.



You guys will be missed though.

[Schneids]

[ QUOTE ]


And next time you do this, PM me or something. I hate missing these games, and I'm only 20 minutes from CP.

[/ QUOTE ]

It sort of came up on a whim since I generally gather we were all getting a little pokered out.

[Schneids]

[ QUOTE ]
There is a big difference between playing like a retard and playing like a maniac preflop and playing good big pot poker post-flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed. Between the five of us who did this two nights ago, the totals were roughly +700, +500, 0, -300 and -300. Granted there's plenty of luck involved but I would be willing to wager that in the long run we would as a group come out ahead due to understanding how to play big pot poker postflop very well. I know I don't enter these games saying "gee I wonder how much I can donate tonight."

[scrub]

[ QUOTE ]
I think this is the funniest thread I've read in a long time. I can't imagine how you guys got so out of control that the card room asked you guys not to play your action filled massively over-tipping game in their establishment. I love it.

One question though, did you have a private game/table, or just a bunch of you sit at a normal table and the other ppl either join in or leave?

I don't quite get the comment made by someone else in this thread (I think Schneids) about overhearing a floorperson making a comment to the effect of "I thought we didnt' allow these kinds of games anymore?" Exactly what types of games?
Games with player playing badly? How can they enforce that? Games with insane styraddling? Fine, then outlaw straddling or double straddling. Games with loud drunken players? Then ban loud or obviously drunk players. It just bothers me that the floor sees people having a good time and tries to stop it. If the game is unruly or disruptive, then enforce rules to keep it orderly, but I don't see how they can ban some nebulous "type" of game.

[/ QUOTE ]

The last time I played with you at the Borgata, you and Evan were so out of hand that I wouldn't have been surprised if they asked us to leave.

scrub

[MEbenhoe]

[ QUOTE ]
I think we, as a group, need to realize that we're the ringleaders when we set foot in a card room, and that our actions have profound effects on the Canterbury clientele. Management would seriously have their hands tied if some tactless cock clown (I HAVE PEOPLE SKILLS!!!) and his buds decided to mimic 2+2 behavior and push the envelope in a different direction.


[/ QUOTE ]

I have to say this a good point. As a group we have the ability to do this in a way that keeps everyone having a good time, but I wouldn't want to see what would likely happen if a bunch of guys like 3/6 Pro and D Money did something like this.

[MEbenhoe]

[ QUOTE ]
OK, I'll admit I was at a point between drunk and too drunk, but WAY too drunk is an overstatement. You people seem to underestimate my eccentricity and outgoingness when I am sober and my "fun" switch is turned on. Ask Schneider or MEBenhoe or someone else who has had to deal with sober gonores for a length of time..."calm" doesn't describe me.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is 100% true. Hell I'm the same way. I wasn't even drunk and had to be the ring leader for the 2nd game til doug could get in (i'd like to think i did a fine job of it). I still don't see whats sooooo bad about this. I've many times been at cbury and convinced my whole table to straddle, and been an obnoxious bastard, I guess its just having almost a full table of us that does it.

[BottlesOf]

/images/graemlins/blush.gif /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Evan]

That was pretty much my reaction. I don't remember us being that crazy, but I also don't remember going to bed or cashing out.

[BottlesOf]

We weren't that crazy. I do remember the floor telling me to stop screaming at one or two points, but I complied, and I think, all in all, they were happy to have us.

[DangerGoodson]

you can't end these games before I get a chance to play in one....

[worm33]

n

[worm33]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
There is a big difference between playing like a retard and playing like a maniac preflop and playing good big pot poker post-flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed. Between the five of us who did this two nights ago, the totals were roughly +700, +500, 0, -300 and -300. Granted there's plenty of luck involved but I would be willing to wager that in the long run we would as a group come out ahead due to understanding how to play big pot poker postflop very well. I know I don't enter these games saying "gee I wonder how much I can donate tonight."

[/ QUOTE ]

Since I dont look at my cards till i am faced with a decision on the turn, this is hard for me. unless of course one of my cards flipped up accidently.

[whiskeytown]

[ QUOTE ]
playing like a maniac preflop and playing good big pot poker post-flop

[/ QUOTE ]

how hard can it be? -

I have 4 outs - giving me 11.5-1 odds, and there's 45 bets in the pot giving me 45-1 pot odds....hmmmm....what's my play.

Why folks just wouldn't go and play 15/30 poker instead of blind 3/6 poker is beyond me....but I skip those parties anyways -

RB

[uw_madtown]

[ QUOTE ]
Sorry, I am needed right here in my own back yard. I will be entertaining a cooler group of 2+2ers for a 4-day golf vacation, after which FSUPlayer and I will be headed to Vegas on June 21.

[/ QUOTE ]

Note to self: must step up to represent the drunken poker prowess of Wisconsin during Vegas trip.

Sorry to hear you won't be there. I was looking forward to seeing what happens when the Canterbury and AC craziness was brought together in one location.

[gonores]

[ QUOTE ]
how hard can it be?

[/ QUOTE ]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[ QUOTE ]
Why folks just wouldn't go and play 15/30 poker instead of blind 3/6 poker is beyond me

[/ QUOTE ]

I do it to see the looks on the faces of guys like you who think

[ QUOTE ]
how hard can it be?

[/ QUOTE ]

when I am raking in a huge pot because I made you incorrectly fold a 6-outer when I raised the turn with third pair.