Half the population now agrees with ME.

[ACPlayer]

Galup poll (http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1000894970)

History is beginning to show that I was right.

In the end, we will learn that we were not only lied to, but were willfully lied to. 1570 US soldiers, 100,000 Iraqi Civilians, Millions of Iraqi's with disrupted lives and no govt (at least as of today).

I hope they recover from the "help" that we have provided them. I continued reminder to beware of those who want to do good for you.

[ QUOTE ]
NEW YORK Half of all Americans, exactly 50%, now say the Bush administration deliberately misled Americans about whether Iraq had weapons of mass destruction, the Gallup Organization reported this morning.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Last week Gallup reported that 53% now believe that the U.S. invasion of Iraq was "not worth it."

[/ QUOTE ]

[lehighguy]

Your post is stupid, shortsighted, and based on false precepts. Even someone against the war can see why?

[ACPlayer]

Your reponse is venomous, full of anger and hatred for those who disagree with you.

Now that we have done the Limbaugh imitation, want to have a dialogue?

[lehighguy]

No your OP is a waste of time.

You make a statement, that you are right about the Iraq war. Your supporting evidence is that 53% of people in a Gallup poll agree with you. You then use this "evidence" (which has nothing to do with your original statement) to say that "history is proving you right".

You made a stupid bragging post with no connection between you conclusions and non-evidence. If you really want me to give examples of why its non-evidence I will.

[ACPlayer]

I said "beginning" to prove me right. If has been over 2 years and we can at least "begin" to evaluate the decisions of 2002/03

I could still be proven wrong and will happily admit to being wrong if that happens.

[lehighguy]

That is a much more reasonable statement then your OP, which was a useless bragging thread with no info or debate value. That is why I was angry at it.

[Felix_Nietsche]

...If a poll comes out that the majority of people agree that occupying Iraq was the proper thing to do, then you will:
Admit Bush was correct and that you were wrong?

Also, in the 'poll' last November, I suppose you were saying then that Bush was correct in his decisons and you were wrong....right? So what changed between November and now. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

I'm glad my beliefs are not govern by polls. It is too much trouble to always consult polls so I know what to believe in. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Broken Glass Can]

Polls about past events reflect relentless media influence.

There is a reason why juries are not allowed to read media accounts of their trials. The reason is bias.

When the public does not believe what the media wants them to believe, the mainstream media will run countless biased reports to reshape opinion over time.

We saw it in the Anita Hill affair. The public when exposed just to the facts of the case came to a conclusion as a jury would. Their gut feel was that Hill was not credible. This was pre-media propaganda campaign. Later polls (post-propaganda) showed a change in public opinion. But this only shows the power of the relentless propaganda of the media, not the real facts of the case.

The same is true with Iraq. The media spins the story its one-sided way often enough to sway opinion. Your cited poll is meaningless.

[ACPlayer]

You really are dumb -- but that is no surprise.

You cannot conclude that MY opinions are driven by polls from my post.

All I said was that the majority of the population NOW agrees with my position.

I'm glad my beliefs are not govern by polls.

This is true -- your positions are driven by a daily dose of propoganda from Fox, Rush or other such sources.

It is too much trouble to always consult polls so I know what to believe in.

Why consult or read or examine when you can just turn on Rush and get spoonfed your opinions.

[ACPlayer]

At least Broken Glass Can has come up with a reasonable spin. Unfortunately it is just spin.

The American population is not stupid and get plenty of propoganda from the Right wing sources (Fox, Rush, Wash Times) in addition to reports from reliable news sources (NY Times, CNN).

[MMMMMM]

[ QUOTE ]

The American population is not stupid and get plenty of propoganda from the Right wing sources (Fox, Rush, Wash Times) in addition to reports from reliable news sources (NY Times, CNN).

[/ QUOTE ]


Then why, pray tell have both the NYT and CNN suffered HUGE credibilty scandals (specifically, involving Jayson Blair and Eason Jordan)--whereas Fox and Wash Times HAVE NOT suffered such credibility scandals?

And given the above, why oh why would you assert that NYT and CNN are the more reliable?

[BCPVP]

[ QUOTE ]
And given the above, why oh why would you assert that NYT and CNN are the more reliable?

[/ QUOTE ]
Because he has an irrational fear of Fox?

[The Dude]

I'm actually surprised so many people are that skeptical about Bush's honesty. I think Bush is honest to a fault. That whole "Axis of Evil" thing - whether you agree or not - was amazingly stupid for him to say, but the man speaks his mind. He's devout and believes very strongly in his convictions. I can understand questioning his aptitude and his capacity as president, but I trust that what he says is what he genuinely believes. I'm convinced he believed there were WMDs in Iraq.

[partygirluk]

I think Bush seriously screwed up Iraq. The prime reason given for going to war was WMD, and it appear pretty certain now that none existed in Iraq at the time of invasion.

But, I don't believe he deliberately lied. It was not just the American government who believed Saddam had WMD. Anti-war countries likes France and Germany did too.

I also don't see what the point of posting this poll result is. Just because the majority of Americans believe one thing, does not mean it was necessarily correct.

[superleeds]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm convinced he believed there were WMDs in Iraq.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. Unfortunately I also believe he is convinced what to believe by extremely intelligent people who want to control without the hassle of wearing ill-fitting suits during debates or listening to My Pet Goat being read to schoolchildren.

[jaxmike]

[ QUOTE ]
Galup poll (http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1000894970)

History is beginning to show that I was right.

In the end, we will learn that we were not only lied to, but were willfully lied to. 1570 US soldiers, 100,000 Iraqi Civilians, Millions of Iraqi's with disrupted lives and no govt (at least as of today).

I hope they recover from the "help" that we have provided them. I continued reminder to beware of those who want to do good for you.

[ QUOTE ]
NEW YORK Half of all Americans, exactly 50%, now say the Bush administration deliberately misled Americans about whether Iraq had weapons of mass destruction, the Gallup Organization reported this morning.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Last week Gallup reported that 53% now believe that the U.S. invasion of Iraq was "not worth it."

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

Then half the people are idiots. Though I think its well over half that are in fact idiots.

[lehighguy]

Your stupid jaxmike. This is the only post you make I'm ever responding to.

[Chris Alger]

[ QUOTE ]
"He's devout and believes very strongly in his convictions"

[/ QUOTE ]
It always amazes me when people make these claims, as if White House PR were a kind of infallible scripture. Have you a crystal ball? Do you read minds? Has it occurred to you that you cannot possibly know this statement to be true?

Your description doesn't even accord with the facts. "Devout" George W. Bush belongs to no congregation and virtually never attends church except when campaigning. Rather than speaking "his mind" his reputation is one for staying on message, reiterating the White House line -- invariably framed by staffers -- ad nauseum without nuance or qualification. When he strays from the script (and often when he extemporaneously tries to stick to it) he sounds incoherent, as if he had no mind about which to speak. Furthermore, he's been caught lying red-handed dozens of times about Iraq and other policy topics. Google "Bush's lies" and you get 27,300 hits ("Clinton's lies" obtain 5740). The only reason he gets more credibility than "slick Wille" is his image (deliberately crafted?) of being as average in intelligence as his moronic supporters prefer to think they are.

[Chris Alger]

[ QUOTE ]
Anti-war countries likes France and Germany did too.


[/ QUOTE ]
Do you have any source for this? I keep seeing statements like this in print and hearing them on the news, and I can't find any evidence for it at all. What I find are claims to the effect that "we should assume" in the absence of on-site inspections that they exist. But such inspections occurred prior to the war. They undermined virtually all of the claims made by the CIA and MI-5, and did so before the first troops crossed the border.

I'm unaware of any intelligence agency or official anywhere in the world, including in the U.S., that asserted, during the period following UNSCOM's and IAEA's inspections, that Iraq likely had any WMD or WMD program. Do you know of any?

[WillMagic]

"History is beginning to show that I was right."

LOL.

This statement works if you define history as "two gallup polls taken in April 2005" and "right" as "in agreement with 50% of the American people."

You should seriously try debate. You get to stretch definitions all the time.

Will

[bholdr]

Don't bother with Jaxmike; he is a liar and a bigot: proof (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=2146937&page=&view=&sb=5& o=&vc=1)

he's just a troll, i think he's probably some 16 year old kid...

[Dead]

[ QUOTE ]

Then half the people are idiots. Though I think its well over half that are in fact idiots.

[/ QUOTE ]

This post is ironic.

Do you see why? I'll let others elaborate.

[ACPlayer]

I think he had a predisposition to go take out Saddam. There have been reports of Wolfovitz saying that WMDs were used as the way to sell the war to the public. I believe this posted in a previous thread. There have also been reports of Bush saying prior to his first election that he wanted to do take out Saddam.

The poll is important to the credibility of Bush as leader.

[ACPlayer]

Then half the people are idiots.

Yeah the ones who voted for Bush. I suspect you belong to that class.

[ACPlayer]

You should seriously try debate.

Debate !?!?? This is the politics forum!!/images/graemlins/grin.gif

The only sensible posters are NickyG, Chris ALger and Cyrus for the "Left" and VulturesRow for the "Right". Zeno is in a class by himself. DVaut bears watching. The rest are lunatics and can barely spell debate.

[jaxmike]

[ QUOTE ]
Your stupid jaxmike. This is the only post you make I'm ever responding to.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh darn.

I am sorry, but I am right in my post. If half the people in this country have finally been convinced of the nonsense that the liberal propaganda machine has been spewing, then they are idiots.

[jaxmike]

[ QUOTE ]
Don't bother with Jaxmike; he is a liar and a bigot: proof (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=2146937&page=&view=&sb=5& o=&vc=1)

he's just a troll, i think he's probably some 16 year old kid...

[/ QUOTE ]

Again, you just insult me and offer no substance. I am not a liar and I am not a biggot. I am not a troll, though your post sure smells of it.

I am not a 16 year old kid either, I am older than that by at least a decade.

You just hate the fact that I am usually right and you are usually wrong.

[jaxmike]

The two points are mutually exclusive. Do you see why?

[jaxmike]

[ QUOTE ]
You should seriously try debate.

Debate !?!?? This is the politics forum!!/images/graemlins/grin.gif

The only sensible posters are NickyG, Chris ALger and Cyrus for the "Left" and VulturesRow for the "Right". Zeno is in a class by himself. DVaut bears watching. The rest are lunatics and can barely spell debate.

[/ QUOTE ]


I love how you consider the nonsense spewed by Alger and Cyrus debate. It's nothing more than radical left wing, dare I say neo-Com (i'm going to get flamed for that one), rheotric. They almost always come FAR from making ANYTHING resembling a logical or intelligent argument.

[trippin bily]

the elections over. you lost
im so tired of the people who wont let it go.
no matter what...you cannot defeat him. he cant run again
i understand your angst.
i felt the same way with clinton.
let it go

[ACPlayer]

I should have suggested that you are the most sensible poster for the "Right".

I regret the error.

[jaxmike]

Actually, I am in the middle.

[bholdr]

[ QUOTE ]
You just hate the fact that I am usually right and you are usually wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]

i thought you said you were always right?

heh.

[ QUOTE ]
Again, you just insult me and offer no substance.

[/ QUOTE ]

did you look at the link? /images/graemlins/wink.gif here's another (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Number=2155734&page=&view=&s b=5&o=&vc=1)

now, let's have your standard cop-out response, troll boy.

btw, 'at least'? huh? what's your b-day big guy?

[Iplayboard]

From the left, it's "Iplayboard."

AC and others who believe that Bush intentionally lied about WMD's in Iraq, what is your evidence, other than the fact that you hate Bush?

There are two main anti-Bush camps. Those who hate Bush the person. AC, I assume you would fall into that group. What are your reasons?

The other group is the one that hates Bush the policy maker. I think that Bush is very sincere. That is why I don't like him. He is very arrogant that his worldview is correct and is the only way. He sees everything in black and white as if he were a small child unable to comprehend how this could not be so.

[WillMagic]

I should have specified that I meant formalized parliamentary debate. You can do just about anything you want with the resolutions given to you.

But really, history isn't beginning to show anything here. And if two years from now both Iraq and Lebanon are full-fledged democracies...who cares about why we went to war originally?

Will

[ACPlayer]

I dont hate Bush. I think he is wrong and incompetent. There is a big difference.

[ACPlayer]

who cares about why we went to war originally

You could ask this question about any historical event.

And if two years from now both Iraq and Lebanon are full-fledged democracies...

As I have pointed out before, if you dont want to examine the decision making process but only look at the results you are the fish in my poker game.

I personally hope the results are good. Even so I want to know how and why my elected representatives are making decisions.

[Cumulonimbus]

AC - It looks like I'm about one of the only people here who is on your side. Come election time, I was for Bush... totally republican and conservative (I'm now somewhere in the middle). After months of research online concerning politics; I've come to the conclusion in my mind that us citizens are being lied to, our freedoms are being stripped away, and that we are indeed living in a police state. I seriously feel like I've been in a cage for all my life that I never even knew was a cage in the first place.

Sticking to the subject matter, if anybody that's for Bush and his policies thinks that they have an open mind in any sense of the phrase, they should definitely check out some of the websites and read some of the books that are against him. You may be in for an awakening.

Below I've included a blog reply I posted regarding a guy trying to start a Dubya debate. I tried to help it get it started by posting this:

"Hey Steve, if you wanna get a forum goin, you gotta get the people fired up; put a little hot sauce in their Cheerios. Choose one of the following for said results:

George W. Bush:

-Is extremely ignorant (lowest estimated IQ out of any President ever!)
-Cannot talk clearly
-Ran for congress and lost
-Made Texas the most polluted state in America
-Is a big fat liar
-Got ushered into Presidency
-Started an oil war, NOT a holy war, because of ties with major oil companies
-Is a member of a really weird secret society
-Is terrible for this country
-Set record in his first year for most vacation days during a Presidency.
-Set record for most people protesting him at one time (14 million I believe).
-In same year, made over 2 million Americans lose their jobs.
-Is beginning to be despised(sp?) by every country in the world
-Shattered record for biggest annual deficit in our country
-Removed more freedoms and civil liberties for Americans than any other president in US history (This is what I'm really pissed about)
-Is responsible for the death of over 20, 000 people

But, because he is a huge advocate for God, people in this country will overlook and forgive all of the above things.

I got tired of typing... will post more when requested! Go Bush! Oh yeah, as a challenge, I dare anybody to post more positive things about him than the negative things I posted (I only posted like 16, you can beat that, right?)"

That was the post then. It was a little harsh, I admit. I wish I would have added his Social Security policy in there (Bleh!). I recently found out that I'll be losing thousands of dollars if it goes into place. Just another reason to add to the list. Truth be told, I could probably never be happy with one person ruling our government, so it's not totally all Bushie's fault. I just truly believe that our government is riddled with corruption and greed, and the effects of its actions are starting to take hold on us citizens.

[jaxmike]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You just hate the fact that I am usually right and you are usually wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]

i thought you said you were always right?

heh.

[ QUOTE ]
Again, you just insult me and offer no substance.

[/ QUOTE ]

did you look at the link? /images/graemlins/wink.gif here's another (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Number=2155734&page=&view=&s b=5&o=&vc=1)

now, let's have your standard cop-out response, troll boy.

btw, 'at least'? huh? what's your b-day big guy?

[/ QUOTE ]

I am at least a decade older than 16, depends on when you want to define 16, thats why I said at least. if you cant figure out my birthday, within a year or so, then you are less intelligent than i thought.

as to always being right, I am not always right, just usually right. there are things that i have gotten wrong before, like when i contradicted myself in the two links you provide... but either way, its not lying, further, i dont see how my positions are bad there in any way.

people like to call me lots of names, but thats because they cant beat me on the issues.