Need help explaining to wife about poker!

Hello all, let me give you a little run down on my situation. I have dealt poker at a local casino for the past year or so and I work 7pm-3am. So on my off days I stay on the same schedule and there is not much to do late at night. I don't smoke, drink, or go to bars. I like to play poker and am a consistent winner. My situation is I play once a week to once every other week and my wife thinks this is too much. I wait till she goes to bed, I use money from winnings (absolutly nothing out of our checking account), and I wait till she goes to bed till I leave and I give her some of the money that I win. We have no kids and we have been married 6 months. She is really getting on me for going. She thinks I am a compulsive gambler...... I tried that poker is a casino skill game (from Rounders), but still does not work. She likes to watch a soap show that she tapes during the day and a couple sitcom shows, so I told her if she doesn't watch her shows I wont play. Something I like to do - something she likes to do. We'll see if that works. Any suggestions from someone that has gone through this or from anyone would be great.

Thanks

[Jason Pohl]

That's quite a predicament you are in. I've been married for almost 2 years. I experienced some similar obstacles to you, for different reasons, and I was asking to play a lot more than once a week. Here are some things you might try.

1) Let your wife know you will quit if she wants you to quit. Bottom line: Poker is not as important as your marriage. Let her know that.

2) Tell her why you play poker. Point out its entertainment value, and it's intrinsic value over other forms of entertainment AND gambling. Normally, it costs money to have fun, and if you are winning, you have a unique situation....that's a great advantage and puts forward the mindset of poker as a hobby.

3) Tell her that you are just as concerned about gambling addiction, and you want to work with her to set ground rules that would make her feel calm. This is where a separate bankroll is most important. One assist: you might use the definition of addiction or look up symptoms of Gambling Addiction to help show her how serious you are.

4) Stop giving her money. If you go on a bad streak, you need your bankroll. The real disaster occurs if you need to pull money out of your paycheck to play.

5) Make a deal with her regarding what to do with your winnings. In conjunction w/ #4, agree upon an amount to have in the bankroll. She'll probably aim lower than you...point out that a) mathematics shows that a larger bankroll is needed; b) you still will never take money out of paychecks, so adding to bankroll ASSUMES that you will be winning (and therefore entertainment time is free); c) offer to put bankroll in a savings account (such as ING...online, decent rate, fairly liquid); d) Offer to put all extra money above bankroll amount into debt or some other good destination. BTW...my wife and I agreed to a large bankroll of 600 Big Bets...but your wife probably would not agree to such an extravagant amount. Luckily for me, my wife is a semester from a Math degree and understands the concept of Standard Deviation and fluctuations.

As a dealer, you can probably relay some of the stories you've seen...you'll particularly want to focus on the bad ones of addicts playing with rent money. If you do, you will be able to say that you've seen how bad it can get and promise your wife you would NEVER EVER jeapordize your futures for a game like poker, no matter what.

Hopefully, this combo will work. Basically, it comes down to collaboration...create a deal where your wife is making the rules, and she will likely be far more tolerant in the LONG RUN. And that's the crucial part...you don't want this coming up every three months.

Good luck.

[brad]

you need to watch that old john wayne movie, 'the quiet man'.

needless to say, im single.

Thank you for the suggestions. I will try a compromise. It was hard enough getting her to agree to having my own bankroll.

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

This is a mostly good post with one glaring flaw. If you tell her #1 up front, she won't listen to the rest and you're through playing poker.

Strike #1 from this discussion or it will become a "prove your love" issue. If there is still pushback after all the rest of the points are made, #1 can be thrown in. Using it up front guarantees the end of your poker life.

[Abagadro]

Just tell the bitch to shut-up and make you some fried chicken.



<kidding>

[Fitz]

This is a very difficult situation; most people have such a negative impression of poker that it can be nearly impossible to get through to them.

I would say first be honest; poker isn't worth the BS that comes from lying and getting caught.

Use reason and statistics to make your point, but be careful and don't beat the subject into the ground in one sitting; I have found that is the surest way to lose an argurment with my girlfriend. It should help if she can see your bankroll growing from your play. Also, keep as detailed records as possible; hard evidence certainly helps your case.

Remember on thing, you'll probably never make her love poker; she'll have friends and family telling her horror stories when they discover her husband "wastes" his time playing poker. Bring her along slowly, and realize there are limitations to this type of situation.

I have almost an opposite problem. My girlfiend likes to play, and she is terrible; she always plays 10 4 because it's lucky!!! I've tried to teach her, but she is one of those who doesn't play often and just likes to gamble. We rarely play at the same table, but when we do, the only rule is that I can't checkraise her when it's heads up; that's a rule for my safety not hers... lol. The real problem is that she knows I'm a long term winner, and she keeps trying to spend my bankroll! Couches, drapes, chairs, refigerators... etc. etc. She needed a new alternator for her car last week, so she called and told me to get busy on Paradise!

Oh well, I guess we all have our women problems. As Norm once said on Cheers, "You can't live with 'em.... Pass the beer nuts."

Good luck with the wife,

[HDPM]

I would not compromise and I would not quit. I would be very concerned that she wants you to quit something that you like and is harmless if controlled, etc... Your idea about her show was OK. But I would never ask my wife to quit a hobby that was harmless. She would never tell me I should quit a hobby either. If it really affects the marriage, that's different. Take a hard look at your relationship. GL.

I don't have a wife but many of my friends have problems with wives/poker. Not uncommon but if problem continues I'd get rid of her.

[Warren Whitmore]

Read and apply "How to win friends and influence people" its an oldie but a goodie. It works.

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

Never read it. I'm more a fan of "Getting to Yes"

When negotiating, never play your big card early.

The deeper question is - why didn't he know this before they got married?

[Boris]

...marriage counselor extraordinaire?

here's my advice. don't ask a bunch of poker players for marital advice.

[Matt Flynn]

If you're really playing only every 1-2 weeks during normal wife sleep hours, then it's about her being worried you'll descend into addiction. And she's absolutely right! Any sane wife wouldn't want to take the risk unless she also enjoyed gambling. You gotta negotiate on non-poker terms or you're toast. The usual lines about gambling edge, poker being a game of skill, etc. sounds like addict chatter. Stop babbling!

Instead say that for you poker's a hobby like golf or fishing. It takes time and some money and makes no sense to people who don't do it, but it's what you like. Ask to set ground rules such that it can't "hurt" her more than a thrice-a-month golf habit would. Agree on a $50/month hobby/poker allowance (or whatever, but make it enough that it's what a hobby costs) and a blessing to spend five hours of your normal awake-when-wife's-asleep time once a week. Stress that it's during normal marriage down time. Ask in turn that as long as you don't play any more than that or spend any more than that she'll leave you alone. And be careful with what you say. Otherwise you may some day have to choose between your wife and poker, and you'll miss your wife.

It appears that you are literally in a no-win situation here. When your wife says that what you're doing is compulsive gambling, she has given you what is the equivalent of an ultimatum, that is telling you to give it up or give her up. Considering that you have been married 6 months, you must have already given her enough explanations that should have satisfied her. You don't need help explaining to her about poker. What you need to decide are your priorities in life. IMO, you can't have both because if you do, you'll be in for a relationship filled with constant recriminations and arguments which at some point if it has not yet happened, will probably adversely affect your game. You'll most probably end up with an unsatisfactory relationship and a worse poker game where you'll always be afraid to take risks for fear of losing. IMO, you don't need help for an explanation. You're really looking for reassurance that you're doing the right thing having both. I am really not sure.

[Jason Pohl]

Good call...use #1 late in the conversation. Really, you're hoping she will understand what a bad thing it would be for her to ask you to quit something you enjoy that is harmless. But you're giving her permission to do just that...the truth is, if your wife would ask you to give up something you really enjoy b/c she doesn't trust you enough, there's a problem with the relationship. Frankly, I'm assuming that's not the case b/c I have no good advice if it is other than 'Find a marriage counselor'. Once you've set out a bankroll and 'hobby' time proposal, there is no excuse for her to have a problem anymore.

--Jason

thanks everyone we'll see what happens. I would never in a million years give up my wife for poker. So if we can't compromise I might just have to put it off for awhile.... and just gain interest on the bankroll

[eMarkM]

Tough to give general advice in this situation. Like any poker advice, "it depends" on her and your relationship with her. My wife of six years is obviously more tolerant of it than your wife, but she does complain about my "obsession". I play online several nights a week and play in home games and/or casino a couple times a month. I admit it is addicting, but it's not like I'm emptying the brokerage account to fund it. I'm playing on the same initial seed money I started with that's balooned to several thousand.

In my case, I keep careful track of my wins/losses and show them to her so at least she's reassurred that I'm a winning player. I've made the same "it's skill" argument and with her I think she understands that. That still doesn't get past the obsession part of her argument, that I admit has validity.

It's also nice that she likes to gamble herself, mostly blackjack, and that I've taken some of the proceeds from my winnings to take her to Vegas. So I guess I paid her off to keep her off my back /forums/images/icons/blush.gif

I did promise that if I were to run through the winnings I've built up that I would quit for a prolonged period. And I did this once in the past giving it up completely for six months after I ran through a similar initial "buy in" stake.

Your first responder gave great advice. The others gave horrible advice, imho. I've been happily married for over ten years and would quit poker in a minute if my wife insisted. But why would she -- anymore than she'd insist I quit golf, going to dinner with male friends or any other recreational activity? As long as I take care of family and work first and fully, everyone needs hobbies. Making it clear that this is what poker is, and that no hobby comes before your relationship should absolutely come first. Holding it back for negotiation purposes is being manipulative. Do you want your wife to "negotiate" with you -- or talk to you openly and honestly. The stigma of gambling is what throws people the most -- my mother has never had any problem with my spending thousands of dollars on equipment and greens fees over the years to play golf. Yet she is always concerned if I go to casino to play low stakes poker -- where I am slightly better than a break even player. That's the part that can be hard to explain, but it's worth the effort, as the first poster wrote. With that trust and understanding, and when your wife sees over time that you only go when you said, that you don't lose money overall and that you enjoy it and keep in perspective like any other hobby, it will become no big deal. When I want to play, either online or at casino, I discuss it with my wife just as I would discuss making time to golf or do any other hobby.

I have been married for 3 months now (second marraige). I played poker before I got married and was sure to tell my future wife that the great trips she was enjoying were all payed for out of poker money. I told her BEFORE we got married that this was part of my life and if she couldn't accept it without thinking she would ever change it then don't marry me. I even told her "don't think I will ever play less, I will probably play more in the future". Of course it helps that about $1000-$2000 a month flows from my bankroll to the family checking account. I do this because my bankroll is sufficiently large for the limits I play and I rarely move up, only when a game is particuarly juicy and I know without a doubt I can beat it. Plainly put, I told my wife before I married her that if forced to choose without reason, (ie....taking money out of the family funds) I would choose poker. So, we have a great agreement, she doesn't ask me to quit poker and I don't ask her to quit breathing! lol

If you are really a winning player she will not ask you to quit as long as the benefits you receieve from it are shared with her. If you are a losing player she should get you to quit or she should leave. /forums/images/icons/grin.gif

[youtalkfunny]

POKER has nothing to do with his wife's fears!

If he tells her that he'll quit poker today, and start spending that time out at night at the local tavern, or pool hall, or bowling alley, or bridge club, or prayer meeting, or...(you get the idea)...

She will STILL have a problem with it!

What she's really afraid of, is that you'll cheat on her! Women are convinced that men who go out of the house unsupervised will abandon monogomy at the first oppurtunity.

Don't call me sexist, either. I didn't make this up. I read it somewhere--either Maxim or (her) Cosmo.

But because she's a woman, she can't SAY what she really means (OK, that part WAS sexism; sue me).

I've been married almost 10 years. Only recently have we reached the point that I can go to a movie alone, without it turning into a major squabble. And I think her fears are subsiding at the same rate as my libido.

I can't believe no one mentioned this. I'm quite sure that over half the posters in this thread have never been married (for long, anyways).

what i did about this situation was break out a deck of cards and teach her the game...now, not only does she not have a problem with it, she plays poker too...and is pretty good at it

The first year of marriage is SO hard - it is all about negotiating how "us" is defined -- who will do what around the house, how much of our time is spent alone vs. together, and how our money will be spent.

I would set reasonable limits (time & money), and show her you can live by them. Then over time you will be able to build her trust that your hobby isn't a compulsion. Try to look at the situation from her POV. Understand that your wife isn't trying to control you, as much as she is just plain concerned about you and the life you are building together. And she's right to be concerned!!! Unlike other hobbies, many people do develop expensive and debilitating gambling problems. (And to most of the world, poker=gambling.) There is AA, NA and GA --there's no "Golfing Anonymous" or "Fishing Anonymous" (although I'm quite sure some wives have given serious consideration to starting such support groups!!)

Also, realize that this adjustment will take time. As a new wife, I burst into tears when my husband told me he lost $300. Today, I still hate to hear it when the news is bad, but I understand the ebb and flow of the game. He taught me to love the game of poker. We play different limits, but at the end of a "poker night out" we enjoy sharing stories of the bad beats and colorful characters at our tables. Your wife may never develop an interest in the game, but I GUARANTEE that the more you push, the more she will resist. You are not going to talk her into liking the fact that you play poker, but over time she will adjust.

I'd stop asking for her permission and instead work to negotiate a compromise, something like:

"Honey, thanks for your concern. I know you love me, but you don't have to worry about me....I love you too, so as a compromise to you, I will limit my poker playing to [every other week while you are sleeping] and will stop at [$200] per session." Then I'd stand firm. Don't try to convince her, just accept that for a while she is going to be unhappy that you want to do something she doesn't want you to do. You are trying to meet her halfway, and get both your needs met. If you start breaking your promises, then she has every right to confront you on "your poker problem" and re-negotiate the deal.

Good luck! /forums/images/icons/tongue.gif