99 in BB with 2 raises against me

[Jackrabbit Slim]

My first thought when I saw my nines was that I'm gonna push these against the probable limpers since the table had been sort of passive. Now the first guy raises but I'm still thinking pushing is a good idea until the SB also calls. Now, with one raise and one call there is a pretty good chance I'm beat or up against at least one coinflip since I most likely can't get both of them to fold with a push. Is a fold here terribly weak/tight?

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t50 (5 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

UTG (t1860)
MP (t1655)
Button (t1730)
SB (t2010)
Hero (t745)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 9/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises to t200</font>, SB calls t175,
Hero?

[prepotency]

How many hands until level 4? this would make a difference to me given your chip size - if you have enough hands left until level four, i fold here

[Jackrabbit Slim]

Hmm, not sure actually, but I managed to bust before level 5 so I guess it was several hands to go.

[prepotency]

i dunno - for some reason i see this hand as one of those hands where you don't have much FE at all and it's gonna be one of those things where the other two guys check it to the river and then one of them pairs up

[Chizoad]

Isn't call one of the buttons you can click?

150 more will drop you to 600, and if the flop is good, you can push and get your fold equity there. I agree you probably don't have a lot of fold equity preflop.

[Jackrabbit Slim]

My thoughts exactly and if both call I'm most likely up against 3-4 overcards and that is pretty poor odds.

[vinyard]

I think its a fold but not a slam dunk. There is a good chance that you are being raised by two overs (at worst) and the call was by a made hand, likely TT or better, or AK or AQ.
I don't think you can hope for better than a coinflip although you might want to gamble and try and double up.

[Jackrabbit Slim]

If SB folds here a push is still ok though?

[Mr_J]

"there is a pretty good chance I'm beat or up against at least one coinflip sinc"

Actually, if you are up against 4 overs then chances are one of them is dominated, which creates very good odds for you.

You said the table was passive, and blinds are still small so you can survive for a bit. I think it's marginal so I'd probally reluctantly fold and wait for a clearer spot. Don't think of this as advice though.

[vinyard]

Yeah, for me at least, its the two callers that create the problem with the push back. There's 450 chips in there, you're adding 725 totalling out to 1275 and leacing them with a little worse than 2:1 on the call.

So with one mini-raiser I push back or two callers I push back.

[valenzuela]

tough, im not hyped about 99 in a 3 way pot with all my chips in the middle.

[curtains]

Folding here preflop is simply ridiculous. Allin is correct and it's not even close. You have the shortest stack at the table and the BUTTON open raised. Also you are facing one raise, not two, as the SB just called. You should move allin.

[Apathy]

Well, I read the replies and I've got to say I disagree with them all.

I push this in.

I think push &gt; fold &gt; call.

Reasons:

You need chips, especially is the blinds are soon to go up.

The SB does not have a hand that beats 99.

The SB will almost surely not call a push.

the button has a huge range of hands and you do have much foling equity as well.

Racing against the button with the SB's 200 chips in there is good for you.

[Mr_J]

"nd the BUTTON open raised"

Wow actually I totally change my view (not because apathy and curtains disagreed). For some reason I thought UTG was the open raiser. Yeh it's probally a steal and SB is probally calling just to see a flop and hope to get lucky. Push.

If you push and button calls SB is outa there. It is a passive table though, so you do have FE.

Curtains and apathy, what if UTG openraised?

[curtains]

If it was UTG its a whole different story. The raise would mean more and the call from the SB.

[Mr_J]

"If it was UTG its a whole different story"

I just wanted to hear you say it /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

If UTG was the openraiser, what pushing range would you have?

[Jackrabbit Slim]

You are indeed correct. The button was stealing and SB was calling with a decent ace. I just have been losing way too many times with PP against Ace-rag lately which has made me kind of hesitant of pushing but of course this is weak and very wrong. After the hand the other players kindly told me that I made a mistake and as I said I busted out shortly thereafter.

[Blarg]

You don't know that the SB doesn't have a better hand than 99, but more importantly, he's probably calling with a hand that has better chances to improve. Same for the original raiser. Hero may be already beat twice, and if he's not, half the cards in the deck make a higher pair than he has. Going all-in forces him into coinflips, at best, with two people at once who probably both have either one or two higher cards than 9's.

Chances that at least one of them is going to hit a higher pair than 9's, if they don't have one already, are high.

I'm thinking I'd rather wait for a steal opportunity to try a push than go against two hands that may both beat me for a premature hail mary play.

[Mr_J]

"with two people at once who probably both have either one or two higher cards than 9's."

You are forgetting that alot of the time one of them will be dominated when both call.