Two AT hands [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

View Full Version : Two AT hands

Perseus

04-14-2005, 02:13 PM

New to table, and the only notes I had were on people who folded

1. I think this was too loose a raise preflop. I need to stop doing this. I should have only raised if it were sooted

2. Should not have called the flop bet. My reasoning at the time was that I had two backdoor draws and three overcard outs. I know this is bad bad bad bad bad now looking at it. However, once I did make the call I think I played the rest fine. Please berate me so I stop doing stupid things like this.

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
1 fold, Hero raises, 5 folds, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: (6 SB) 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets, SB calls, BB raises, Hero calls, SB calls.

Turn: (6 BB) 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
SB checks, BB bets, Hero calls, SB folds.

River: (8 BB) 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
BB bets, Hero raises, BB calls.

Final Pot: 12 BB

Hand 2

Think I learned my lesson...finally. Is this the way to play this hand, or should I have folded preflop...?

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with T/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif.
Hero raises, 4 folds, MP3 calls, 4 folds.

Flop: (5.33 SB) 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero bets, MP3 calls.

Turn: (3.66 BB) 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, MP3 bets, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 4.66 BB

27offsooot

04-14-2005, 02:19 PM

Hand 1-
The PF raise is a little much, I think calling the flop c/r is fine with ur two bd draws and overcard. The rest of the hand is standard.

Hand 2:
PF Raise is standard for me. The rest of the hand seems fine.

Do you have any reads for these hands?

Yodaman

04-14-2005, 02:21 PM

I tend to just call with ATs, and ATo early position.

I guess this is too passive

einbert

04-14-2005, 02:22 PM

First hand: The PFR is marginal. I think it's close but in general I would tend to muck here.

I don't think you can really check this flop, and I don't think you can fold to the CR either. I like your play.

Turn and river standard.

Hand 2:
I think PFR is standard.

Flop bet is pretty mandatory.

I like the turn check/fold with no reads.

shant

04-14-2005, 02:23 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I tend to just call with ATs, and ATo early position.

I guess this is too passive

[/ QUOTE ]
You should raise ATs and fold ATo from EP.

Donk

04-14-2005, 02:27 PM

[ QUOTE ]
New to table, and the only notes I had were on people who folded

1. I think this was too loose a raise preflop. I need to stop doing this. I should have only raised if it were sooted

2. Should not have called the flop bet. My reasoning at the time was that I had two backdoor draws and three overcard outs. I know this is bad bad bad bad bad now looking at it. However, once I did make the call I think I played the rest fine. Please berate me so I stop doing stupid things like this.

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
1 fold, Hero raises, 5 folds, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: (6 SB) 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets, SB calls, BB raises, Hero calls, SB calls.

Turn: (6 BB) 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
SB checks, BB bets, Hero calls, SB folds.

River: (8 BB) 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
BB bets, Hero raises, BB calls.

Final Pot: 12 BB

Hand 2

Think I learned my lesson...finally. Is this the way to play this hand, or should I have folded preflop...?

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with T/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif.
Hero raises, 4 folds, MP3 calls, 4 folds.

Flop: (5.33 SB) 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero bets, MP3 calls.

Turn: (3.66 BB) 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, MP3 bets, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 4.66 BB

[/ QUOTE ]

ATo is an ugly hand to raise with in EP, unless that abel is absurdly tight and you think you can steal the blinds. Fold the flop in #1, but you know that.

ATs is stronger, but I wouldn't make a habit of raising this UTG. The play isn't BAD, but IMO it shouldn't be standard either.

einbert

04-14-2005, 02:29 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Fold the flop in #1, but you know that.

[/ QUOTE ]

Really? Hero is getting 11-1 on his call.

His BDFD is definitely worth a full 1.5 outs. I'd say his A outs are worth about 1.5 and he has two BDSD worth another 1.5 outs collectively. With 4.5 outs I don't see why this is an 'easy' fold, if a fold at all.

Donk

04-14-2005, 02:37 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Fold the flop in #1, but you know that.

[/ QUOTE ]

Really? Hero is getting 11-1 on his call.

His BDFD is definitely worth a full 1.5 outs. I'd say his A outs are worth about 1.5 and he has two BDSD worth another 1.5 outs collectively. With 4.5 outs I don't see why this is an 'easy' fold, if a fold at all.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are right. I am wrong. That is why I am a donk. That said, I think 4.5 is a bit generous here.

Aces_up07

04-14-2005, 02:39 PM

raising UTG with ATs is standard? I've recently been having my doubts about raising UTG with AQs.

einbert

04-14-2005, 02:40 PM

[ QUOTE ]
raising UTG with ATs is standard? I've recently been having my doubts about raising UTG with AQs.

[/ QUOTE ]

For me, raising KJs, ATs, KQo, AJo, and 99 UTG in a 10-handed game is standard.

shant

04-14-2005, 02:46 PM

[ QUOTE ]
For me, raising KJs, ATs, KQo, AJo, and 99 UTG in a 10-handed game is standard.

[/ QUOTE ]
AQs as was mentioned is also very standard.

einbert

04-14-2005, 02:46 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
For me, raising KJs, ATs, KQo, AJo, and 99 UTG in a 10-handed game is standard.

[/ QUOTE ]
AQs as was mentioned is also very standard.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah I meant all those hands and hands that dominate them.

Donk

04-14-2005, 03:03 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I've recently been having my doubts about raising UTG with AQs.

[/ QUOTE ]

/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Donk

04-14-2005, 03:09 PM

[ QUOTE ]

For me, raising KJs, ATs, KQo, AJo, and 99 UTG in a 10-handed game is standard.

[/ QUOTE ]

By "standard" do you mean your default move that you occasionally adjust? I ask because I am sure there are tables where you feel a limp may be prudent with a few of these.

brettbrettr

04-14-2005, 04:46 PM

Yeah, I limp pre-flop in hand 1, post flop looks standard.

Hand 2, looks fine.

jason_t

04-14-2005, 04:49 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, I limp pre-flop in hand 1, post flop looks standard.

[/ QUOTE ]

Really? I muck ATo in EP. Too tight?

brettbrettr

04-14-2005, 05:02 PM

Its really table and mood dependant for me. At a more aggro table I'd ditch it <----this happens rarely.

If I'm winning and its passive, I'd play. ATo and KJo are normally limps for me, but sometimes I'll fold.

That sai I have no idea what my winrate is with it, I'll check it out later...

shant

04-14-2005, 05:49 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, I limp pre-flop in hand 1, post flop looks standard.

[/ QUOTE ]

Really? I muck ATo in EP. Too tight?

[/ QUOTE ]
No, I muck ATo and KJo in EP too.