Correct?

[Nick Royale]

UTG is pretty loose/passive. Button is tighter (~20 vpip). Reads from gt+.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, J/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Button calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero checks.

Flop: (5.50 SB) J/images/graemlins/heart.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG calls, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, Button calls.
First of all, is betting the flop correct? The board is very coordinated, many limping hands contains J's and I have no kicker. Since I couldn't expect a bet from a late postion I decided to bet.

Turn: (4.25 BB) 4/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG calls, Button calls.
Easy bet.

River: (7.25 BB) T/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, UTG checks, Button checks.
Well, what hands am I ahead of here? Check/calling seems best. Can't expect many calls from weaker hands and since there are a risk of getting bluffed when the board paired I decided to check/call.

Final Pot: 7.25 BB

[brettbrettr]

Even though you can't expect a bet I'm still going for the c/r on that flop. If the bet comes from MP and there's a call, then I think I'd call and bet that turn(?)

[ChromePony]

[ QUOTE ]
Even though you can't expect a bet I'm still going for the c/r on that flop. If the bet comes from MP and there's a call, then I think I'd call and bet that turn(?)


[/ QUOTE ]

I tend to agree here, a well executed c/r here might fold out some over cards who would see a turn for one more, I doubt it will get check through. You can then safely lead when a turn blank falls, like it did, or if a danger card falls I would think you can check to see what happens and generall let go without feeling too bad about it.

On the river I like the check call, but my river play can be a bit weak at times, so I'm interested to hear other perspectives.

[chief444]

The only thing I know for sure is I check the flop. What I do after that just depends on what happens after that.

[crunchy1]

[ QUOTE ]
Well, what hands am I ahead of here?

[/ QUOTE ]
A lot!!

[ QUOTE ]
Check/calling seems best.

[/ QUOTE ]
Check/calling seems weak passive on this LAG forum! /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[ QUOTE ]
Can't expect many calls from weaker hands and since there are a risk of getting bluffed when the board paired I decided to check/call.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not really worried about a bluff here for two reasons: relative position and the size of the pot.

First - relative position. You've got a LP next to act after you bet the river. This player will call with a wide range of hands that you are ahead of at this point and that takes away any bluffing opportunity from the button (if the button raises a bettor and a caller it's a pretty safe fold for you).

Second - the pot size. If the LP does fold and button also missed his hand I wouldn't worry about being bluffed in this spot by the button because of the size of the pot. He'd be putting in 2 bets to win 8 and you've been in the lead the whole time. I don't think a tight player would consider this a +EV opportunity to get cute.

So I think it's a pretty safe line to bet and fold to a raise. I think many times you will win uncontested. Some times you will win while squeezing out an extra bet from the LP. Some times you will end up folding to a raise. And a couple times (can't forget these! /images/graemlins/grin.gif) the LP will call and turn over the nut straight. /images/graemlins/shocked.gif

[adamstewart]

Don't lead the flop.

There are several players behind you. Check and see how the action develops behind you.



Adam

[ArturiusX]

I'd never lead this flop. Kinda like putting your toe out onto the highway, and hoping the cars stop so you can get across. But more often than not, you'll get run over.

[Elbie]

I would have checked the flop with the intention of folding to an early bet and check-raising a late bet

[Donk]

[ QUOTE ]
UTG is pretty loose/passive. Button is tighter (~20 vpip). Reads from gt+.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, J/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Button calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero checks.

Flop: (5.50 SB) J/images/graemlins/heart.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG calls, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, Button calls.
First of all, is betting the flop correct? The board is very coordinated, many limping hands contains J's and I have no kicker. Since I couldn't expect a bet from a late postion I decided to bet.

Turn: (4.25 BB) 4/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG calls, Button calls.
Easy bet.

River: (7.25 BB) T/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, UTG checks, Button checks.
Well, what hands am I ahead of here? Check/calling seems best. Can't expect many calls from weaker hands and since there are a risk of getting bluffed when the board paired I decided to check/call.

Final Pot: 7.25 BB

[/ QUOTE ]

I check this flop, hoping it gets bet and raised so that I can fold.

[adamstewart]

[ QUOTE ]
I check this flop, hoping it gets bet and raised so that I can fold.


[/ QUOTE ]


I like this. /images/graemlins/smile.gif


Adam

[QTip]

[ QUOTE ]
The only thing I know for sure is I check the flop

[/ QUOTE ]

Why? For the c/r from late position like Brett was saying?

[QTip]

I don't. I've got top pair on a draw heavy board...maybe I'm not considering reverse implied odds enough since there are a lot of scare cards that could fall.

[chief444]

I may have the best hand, but I may not and it's a very coordinated flop in a 5-way pot that's only 2.5 BB's right now. So I really don't mind getting away from this one. If it's checked to LP who bets then yes, I'd likely check/raise. If EP bets and there are a couple of calls I probably peel one and see the turn card and action. If there's a bet and a raise I'm gone without a second thought.

If the flop were J62 rainbow then I think betting out is fine and good.

[QTip]

Got ya.

I'm trying to get better at adjusting to board textures. You know, the section on evaluating hands in SSHE is really very good for the topic of evaluating textures. I've really just blew threw those pages before, and now I'm realizing that was a mistake. That book really is packed with good stuff. I think it's safe to say that if you just blow through any section in there thinking that it's somewhat mundane or redundant, you're missing something. That sections also contains the difference between sets and trips that was so gracefully pointed out to me yesterday /images/graemlins/smirk.gif I just reread the section yesterday.

[chief444]

Yeah...with this board for one thing you're less likely to have the best hand than with a Jxx rainbow board or a J22 board or something like that. But also the times you do have the best hand your equity is likely much lower considering the likelihood of decent draws being out there.

[Donk]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not considering reverse implied odds enough since there are a lot of scare cards that could fall.

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly. The reverse implied odds are HUGE here, not to mention you may be dominated.

I think the best hope here is that it checks to the last player, who bets, and you raise to clear out the field. If the bet comes from anywhere else, I really don't even mind a fold.

[CanKid]

I think you can go alot of ways with this hand, but I don't like leading the flop.

I had a hand recently similiar to this, villains weren't as passive, but I recall check calling the flop, and check raising a brick on the turn.