Am I Fish? [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

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Yodaman

04-13-2005, 12:57 PM

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 7/images/graemlins/club.gif.
1 fold, UTG+1 raises, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, 1 fold, CO 3-bets, Button caps, Hero calls, 1 fold, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, CO calls.

Flop: (25 SB) T/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 6/images/graemlins/club.gif, 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif (6 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, MP2 checks, CO bets, Button raises, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, CO 3-bets, Button caps, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 folds, CO calls.

Turn: (23.50 BB) 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (5 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, CO bets, Button raises, Hero calls, MP1 folds, CO calls.

River: (29.50 BB) 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif (4 players)
Hero bets, CO folds, Button calls.

Final Pot: 31.50 BB

With the way this guy played I was 99% sure he had AA and not TT for top set.
I dont use poker tracker but this guy plays his top pair any kicker like its the nuts, so I figured I had the pot odds here to be calling this to river.

J.R.

04-13-2005, 12:59 PM

yes

cold_cash

04-13-2005, 12:59 PM

The pre-flop call is dubious, at best.

The rest is bad.

brettbrettr

04-13-2005, 01:03 PM

deleted, misread post

TheHip41

04-13-2005, 01:04 PM

Fold preflop, fold the flop, fold the turn, c/r the river.

Other than that, wow, great hand /images/graemlins/confused.gif

27offsooot

04-13-2005, 01:05 PM

FWIW, CO apparantly played the hand much worse with his AK or whatever the hell he had. The pre-flop call looks ok, the flop call does not.

shant

04-13-2005, 01:07 PM

Did the Button have 93s?

TheHip41

04-13-2005, 01:08 PM

[ QUOTE ]
FWIW, CO apparantly played the hand much worse with his AK or whatever the hell he had. The pre-flop call looks ok, the flop call does not.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you routinely cold-call 3.5 bets with a trash pair, out of position, vs. 3 pre flop raises? I can't think this is a good call.

27offsooot

04-13-2005, 01:12 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
FWIW, CO apparantly played the hand much worse with his AK or whatever the hell he had. The pre-flop call looks ok, the flop call does not.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you routinely cold-call 3.5 bets with a trash pair, out of position, vs. 3 pre flop raises? I can't think this is a good call.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're getting 6.14: 1 assuming the two ccers call for two more, which most of them will. It could be more if bb calls. If it was limp, limp, raise, raise, raise, then it's closer to fold b/c u can't expect the two limpers to call 3 cold. You'll make up the (7.5-6.14) * 4sbs post-flop fairly easily if u connect. You do have to consider set-over-set, which may make it closer, but i don't think it's a bad call. The flop call when u don't close the action and are getting like 28:2 however is pretty bad.

TheHip41

04-13-2005, 01:13 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 7/images/graemlins/club.gif.
1 fold, UTG+1 raises, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, 1 fold, CO 3-bets, Button caps, Hero calls, 1 fold, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, CO calls.

Flop: (25 SB) T/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 6/images/graemlins/club.gif, 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif (6 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, MP2 checks, CO bets, Button raises, Hero calls,

so I figured I had the pot odds here to be calling this to river.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok, say you get past preflop.

On the flop, there are 24SB. It's bet, and raised right before you. Now there are 27SB, you have to call 2, that's 13.5/1.

You will hit a 7 22/1 times. Wtf are you talking about, pot odds. You don't have odds to even peel one off on the flop. This isn't even considering the fact it might get re rasied and capped again. You could be getting something like 11-1 overall, and, to top it off, you might be drawing dead already. Fold the flop.

Stu Pidasso

04-13-2005, 01:19 PM

I suspect you are a troll.

Stu

MoreWineII

04-13-2005, 01:25 PM

I make this call too. I don't like it that button capped, but I expect at least five players to see this flop.

That's good enough to try and flop a set, imo.

And it appears that these players will likely give you action if you do flop one.

I'm gone on the flop for two bets though not closing the action. I hate the flop call.

damaniac

04-13-2005, 01:30 PM

Realistically, only the flop play really sucked, the river probably should have been a c/r, as the 4-card straight scared him into just calling instead of getting 2 bets out of him, but otherwise...

PF 14:3 immediately, and let's face it, most likely no one is folding so that gives us 21:3, or 7:1. As someone mentioned the implied odds make this an easy call, even considering set-over-set, and given the action we can probably slow down if an A or K shows up.

The turn is an easy call at 26.5 to 2 or 13 to 1. We've got 6 outs, if no one noticed the gutshot.

So yeah, the flop sucked horribly, but everything else was pretty standard. I'm actually surprised people advocate folding PF and the turn. It'd be a clear mistake.

chief444

04-13-2005, 01:34 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Do you routinely cold-call 3.5 bets with a trash pair, out of position, vs. 3 pre flop raises? I can't think this is a good call.

[/ QUOTE ]
When it's apparent there's 5-6 people seeing the turn and also apparent I'll get lots of action postflop I don't even think twice about it. I think it's an easy preflop call.

Postflop is really bad though.

27offsooot

04-13-2005, 01:35 PM

[ QUOTE ]

The turn is an easy call at 26.5 to 2 or 13 to 1. We've got 6 outs, if no one noticed the gutshot.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. Even if it's capped by CO and button, u'll be getting 31.5:4 which will cover your 6 outs and make it close to break even. I'm not sure that the river is an auto c/r though. I don't mind betting out in this situation.

PotatoStew

04-13-2005, 02:34 PM

[ QUOTE ]
With the way this guy played I was 99% sure he had AA and not TT for top set.
I dont use poker tracker but this guy plays his top pair any kicker like its the nuts, so I figured I had the pot odds here to be calling this to river.

[/ QUOTE ]

And the other 4 to 6 people who were in the hand with you at any given point?

Yodaman

04-13-2005, 02:50 PM

Well I agree that my flop call was terrible, but yeah the turn call was routine, pot so big 6 outs.

anyway there was that chance of higher set, but given the way the players were at this table I couldn't put them on a set. I'm not going to describe each player in the hand, but I think it was safe to play for the set.

I thought the aggressor would check behind on the river because it was a 1 card to straight and he's already done making people pay to see more cards, although he probably would've bet and called my CR.

BTW, I'm also surprised people are saying fold preflop, People would call with any 2 cards for just 4$ more after they put in 4$ with so much action and players in preflop.

rmarotti

04-13-2005, 05:00 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Well I agree that my flop calls were terrible

[/ QUOTE ]

Fixed your post, fish.

SmileyEH

04-13-2005, 05:18 PM

I don't really care about preflop, its probably fine. But you need to ditch this ASAP on the flop.

-SmileyEH

Ben5505

04-13-2005, 05:41 PM

Actually, I feel this was the best flop you could have asked for with your sevens. I personally would have ditched them out of position with a cap in front of me. You could be dominated in so many ways even if you hit bottom set. Long run you will lose more than win calling a cap COLD. Glad you hit on the river though.