Sick overbet #2

[Sponger15SB]

Literally hand #1 at the table, I'm in the BB, Villian has about $45.

$25 6-max

I've got K /images/graemlins/diamond.gifK /images/graemlins/heart.gif, folded to the SB who calls, I raise to $1, he calls.

Flop is 3 /images/graemlins/club.gif7 /images/graemlins/club.gif2 /images/graemlins/club.gif

Villian checks, I bet $2, Villian check-raises to $4, I call planning to raise a safe turn card.

Turn is a Q /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

Villian bets $20

[Sponger15SB]

Nobody thinks this hand is interesting? geeeze

[xorbie]

Looks like he was trying to push out any flush draws. Whether this means he has a baby flush or a set, I'm not sure. Pretty sure you are beat though. The only other thing I could see him having is Qx/images/graemlins/club.gif where x is an A, K, J or maybe T.

[The_Bends]

I think you have to fold without a good read on the villian as massivly loose. He's bet big with an obvious flush out there so I think he has it already or has a pair and the A /images/graemlins/club.gif. In the first case you're stone cold dead, in the second he has 14 outs to beat you on the river. He might also have a set which leaves you drawing to nothing.

Fold

[hfrog355]

You have to raise more PF. Honestly, if I sit down at a table and catch a hand like that right off the bat, I'm going to raise the crap out of that pot and hope that someone thinks I'm being the stupid new guy and calls with something mediocre.

As far as your situation goes, you are beat, or will be very soon. fold

[The_Bends]

[ QUOTE ]
You have to raise more PF. Honestly, if I sit down at a table and catch a hand like that right off the bat, I'm going to raise the crap out of that pot and hope that someone thinks I'm being the stupid new guy and calls with something mediocre.

[/ QUOTE ]

That is also a great point. Yesterday I sat down at a table and get AQ I raise it up hit both the A and Q raise again and the other guy folds. Next hand AA I raise and get called, flop is non threatening so I bet huge. Someone on the table actually says 'take this idiot's money' and I get called by 2nd pair.

[DoomSlice]

Tough hand.

When I run into a tough hand like this... I usually end up folding.

[Sponger15SB]

[ QUOTE ]
You have to raise more PF. Honestly, if I sit down at a table and catch a hand like that right off the bat, I'm going to raise the crap out of that pot and hope that someone thinks I'm being the stupid new guy and calls with something mediocre.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok, good advice. In my defense, I am usually pretty good at bombing good hands preflop if the situation calls for it, however for whatever reason I did not do so at the time.

[TheWorstPlayer]

Villains do not semi-bluff. It is either a set, a flush, or a severely overplayed TP hand. Against a set or a flush you are drawing near dead or dead. Fold to the check/raise. It sucks, but sometimes you have to fold cowboys on the flop.

[hfrog355]

And there you go.

I think if you're lucky enough to catch an incredible hand really early, you can do things with it you normally wouldn't and people will assume you are trying to steal.

[BK_]

super easy push. this anti-poker if he has a good hand

[BobboFitos]

[ QUOTE ]
super easy push. this anti-poker if he has a good hand

[/ QUOTE ]

edit: i think im going to go around and just repeat what BK says

[BK_]

haha.

how are you posting on here yet are idle on aim?

[BobboFitos]

[ QUOTE ]
haha.

how are you posting on here yet are idle on aim?

[/ QUOTE ]

I am using a different laptop to type on 2+2 - Im DLing something on the other laptop.

Im full of mystery =) (i'll be back on AIM in a little, want to post here and just let the videos DL)

[TheWorstPlayer]

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haha.

how are you posting on here yet are idle on aim?

[/ QUOTE ]

I am using a different laptop to type on 2+2 - Im DLing something on the other laptop.

Im full of mystery =) (i'll be back on AIM in a little, want to post here and just let the videos DL)

[/ QUOTE ]
1. Don't you think you guys could keep this chat out of here? /images/graemlins/wink.gif
2. Neither of you sees a donk playing a flush here?

[TrailofTears]

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Neither of you sees a donk playing a flush here?

[/ QUOTE ]

A scared donk, yes.

[BobboFitos]

[ QUOTE ]
. Don't you think you guys could keep this chat out of here?

[/ QUOTE ]

whats with all this "poker strategy" on a poker strategy board? sheesh

[ QUOTE ]
Neither of you sees a donk playing a flush here?

[/ QUOTE ]

nahhhh!

[TheWorstPlayer]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
. Don't you think you guys could keep this chat out of here?

[/ QUOTE ]

whats with all this "poker strategy" on a poker strategy board? sheesh


[/ QUOTE ]
What poker strategy?
[ QUOTE ]

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Neither of you sees a donk playing a flush here?

[/ QUOTE ]

nahhhh!

[/ QUOTE ]
Oh, that poker strategy. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[BK_]

[ QUOTE ]

2. Neither of you sees a donk playing a flush here?

[/ QUOTE ]

sure he could be (well he is a donk after all) but id bet on some other worse hand

[TheWorstPlayer]

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2. Neither of you sees a donk playing a flush here?

[/ QUOTE ]

sure he could be (well he is a donk after all) but id bet on some other worse hand

[/ QUOTE ]
You mean like 82o?

http://twodimes.net/h/?z=890993
pokenum -h kd kh - 8c 2d -- 3c 7c 2c
Holdem Hi: 990 enumerated boards containing 7c 3c 2c
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
Kd Kh 497 50.20 493 49.80 0 0.00 0.502
8c 2d 493 49.80 497 50.20 0 0.00 0.498

I don't know. I just don't see how this can possibly be good for you. At BEST you are a coin flip. At worst you are drawing dead to runner runner. It just doesn't seem like the type of spot I want to invest a lot of money into. I am open to being convinced though.

[Sponger15SB]

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2. Neither of you sees a donk playing a flush here?

[/ QUOTE ]

sure he could be (well he is a donk after all) but id bet on some other worse hand

[/ QUOTE ]
You mean like 82o?

http://twodimes.net/h/?z=890993
pokenum -h kd kh - 8c 2d -- 3c 7c 2c
Holdem Hi: 990 enumerated boards containing 7c 3c 2c
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
Kd Kh 497 50.20 493 49.80 0 0.00 0.502
8c 2d 493 49.80 497 50.20 0 0.00 0.498


[/ QUOTE ]

This is the worst example ever. Not only is that hand a completely nonsensical holding (at least make it like A8o or something), but we are on the turn, so it should look like this, cause I sure as hell wasn't folding on the flop....


http://twodimes.net/h/?z=891000
pokenum -h kd kh - 8c 2d -- 3c 7c 2c qd
Holdem Hi: 44 enumerated boards containing 7c 3c 2c Qd
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
Kd Kh 30 68.18 14 31.82 0 0.00 0.682
8c 2d 14 31.82 30 68.18 0 0.00 0.318

[TheWorstPlayer]

I think you should fold on the flop. These guys are just not tricky. On the flop, best case scenario you are a toss up. Worst case scenario you are screwed royally. Give me one plausible hand that he can check/raise you with that you are beating handily.

[BK_]

[ QUOTE ]
I think you should fold on the flop. These guys are just not tricky. On the flop, best case scenario you are a toss up. Worst case scenario you are screwed royally. Give me one plausible hand that he can check/raise you with that you are beating handily.

[/ QUOTE ]

i cant possibly see folding the flop for a min-raise here. many many many times a guy will min raise here with some random pair, a flush draw, etc. then he may play passively the rest of the hand, or make a silly push like he did here. bad players min raise also, and they dont always min raise made flushes/sets

no matter what he has, his min c/r is a terrible play. therefore he is probably a terrible player. i cant assume that a terrible player will only make a mistake here with a great hand and not with a good/average one.

[TheWorstPlayer]

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I think you should fold on the flop. These guys are just not tricky. On the flop, best case scenario you are a toss up. Worst case scenario you are screwed royally. Give me one plausible hand that he can check/raise you with that you are beating handily.

[/ QUOTE ]

i cant possibly see folding the flop for a min-raise here. many many many times a guy will min raise here with some random pair, a flush draw, etc. then he may play passively the rest of the hand, or make a silly push like he did here. bad players min raise also, and they dont always min raise made flushes/sets

[/ QUOTE ]
So you're saying, I'll call the min-raise on the flop because maybe he'll make a 'silly push' on the turn and we can get it all in with my overpair on this monotone flop? I'm sure I have a lot to learn, but that would be the last thing going through my mind on this flop.

[Sponger15SB]

[ QUOTE ]
I think you should fold on the flop. These guys are just not tricky. On the flop, best case scenario you are a toss up. Worst case scenario you are screwed royally. Give me one plausible hand that he can check/raise you with that you are beating handily.

[/ QUOTE ]

My god, you are out of your mind of you fold on the flop there.

How do you know he isn't tricky/insanely stupid, I have been at the table for 0 hands.

[BK_]

nah, that wouldnt really cross my mind at the time, not sure why i included it there. but i do think it is a source of EV (maybe small), because if i knew on the flop that he would over-bet push on an offsuit queen after the min c/r, i would be planning to hit call/call.

in the end, i bet that calling his turn all in is positive EV, but not huge. if you want to dodge variance, i see no problem in folding here.

[thatpfunk]

[ QUOTE ]

I think you should fold on the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

That is ludicrous. Are you playing in the same game we are? The range of hands that random villians do this with is huge.

The turn is close, flop not even a second thought.

[Sponger15SB]

[ QUOTE ]
Looks like he was trying to push out any flush draws. Whether this means he has a baby flush or a set, I'm not sure. Pretty sure you are beat though. The only other thing I could see him having is Qx/images/graemlins/club.gif where x is an A, K, J or maybe T.

[/ QUOTE ]

Alright well I think we have exhausted this debate pretty good, I gritted my teeth and gathered things to throw across the room and readied myself for a head bash into the wall, and then I made the call. Villian had K /images/graemlins/spade.gifQ /images/graemlins/club.gif and a blank hit the river.

/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Anyways regardless of the results I think that the decision to call this river is razor thin +EV