Royal 9-A... River Bet (INCLUDES CONTENT!)

[DavidC]

You'll be disappointed with the subject line vs the action, but there will be discussion after the hand, so please read.

The guys to my left are: LPP, LAA, LPP (bisonbison standards), the BB is TPP.

----

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

MP1 ($73.75)
MP2 ($23.2)
CO ($59.55)
Button ($38.32)
SB ($52.7)
BB ($23.15)
UTG ($31.7)
Hero ($21.25)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif. SB posts a blind of $0.1.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls $0.25, MP1 calls $0.25, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, CO calls $0.25, Button calls $0.25, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, BB checks.

Flop: ($1.35) Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif, T/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets $3</font>, Hero calls $3, MP1 folds, CO folds, Button folds.

Turn: ($7.35) 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets $3</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $6</font>, BB calls $3.

River: ($19.35) A/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $5</font>, BB folds.

Final Pot: $24.35

---

Preflop:
What do you guys think of the limp here?

Flop:
I call because I have a buttload of outs here, and I'd like to build the pot. I realize that if I go all-in, I'm going to be in the lead against anyone but a set. I also realize that no one but a set will call me. I also realize that a big raise will leave me with half my stack in the middle and no place to go on the turn, or with a set putting me all in on the flop. Good call?

Turn:
With such a large bet on the flop on a draw heavy board, I assume that I'm against a set here. He's naturally afraid of a flush, since they're all up on the board and I smooth called a massive bet. He therefore leads with a small bet. I appologize for minraising even after reprimanding myself for it in another post, but I felt that this time it was a good idea, because I totally want to get this guy to make his boat, and I know that he'll pay a bit for it in an effort to break me. I make it $3 to him in a $16 pot, so he that he has perceived odds to call with his set, even though he's drawing dead.

If we hit another heart and he has the A or something like that (he was semibluffing) then I'm happy about that too.

Good raise? Maybe a little more because he can still afford it due to pot/implied odds? 10/46 = 3.6:1 odds, so I guess I could have raised it to maybe half the pot and still given him correct implied odds (3:1 makes him a dog to call but I've still got cash left). Therefore the correct bet would have been: $9?

I suppose a reason to minraise this (a legitimate one) would be that he could have two pair, and therefore would require higher odds from the pot and my stack to make his call.

River:
In first position, no bet, definitely. Let him think I have a baby and let him bluff. In last position, I must bet, since he didn't and I have the nuts. However, the advantage to this bet, even when not called, is that he doesn't see my hand. Therefore he won't realize that I called with such a good draw, and he'll hopefully be inclined to make larger bets at me in the future, thinking I'll call with worse hands than I did (i.e. FFs rather than FFOESDs). If possible, I want him to call, so I bet 1/4 pot, but even if he did have 2 /images/graemlins/heart.gif he's not calling it. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Now, if this guy was a 2+2er, he now knows what I have, but I'd like to know what you guys think of how I played it.

[Tilt]

David, I really think you need to raise that flop. Its very tough to build a pot for such a monster draw if you don't do it before the board gets scary. Also, with position, you may get a free or at least cheap river card if you do so.

[DavidC]

[ QUOTE ]
David, I really think you need to raise that flop. Its very tough to build a pot for such a monster draw if you don't do it before the board gets scary. Also, with position, you may get a free or at least cheap river card if you do so.

[/ QUOTE ]

Cool. I just read this but I'll consider it. I'm a little nervous about what he may have after such a large bet on the flop. If he has a set or top two (or top and bottom), then I don't think he's going to let me get away with the raise. He shouldn't, anyways. I didn't raise pf so it's unlikely that I have top or middle set. If he's got the bottom, that really narrows down what I may have.

However, what you said about tying them to a pot before the board gets scary is a good thing. I have to think about it definitely.

[tbach24]

Push the flop hard. Right now you're a coinflip with a set, however if you miss the turn, you're behind top pair so you wanna get some money in now when you're likely good or close to it. Also, this may buy you a free card.

[DavidC]

[ QUOTE ]
Push the flop hard. Right now you're a coinflip with a set, however if you miss the turn, you're behind top pair so you wanna get some money in now when you're likely good or close to it. Also, this may buy you a free card.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know... if he pushes after I push hard, then I must call due to pot odds.

I won't get anyone else in the pot with me, who will actually make it a +EV call against a set.

The free card is attractive, but it's also transparent unless I hit a straight.

My problem is that i don't want to put $30 into a $4 pot with a coinflip weighted the wrong way. That $4 in the pot may be enough to commit me even with a crappy flip, but I just don't feel comfortable doing this.

I don't know the precise equity vs a set here, I just know that it's not in my favour. I'll pokerstove it to see if that helps my decision.

--Dave.

[DavidC]

[ QUOTE ]
Push the flop hard. Right now you're a coinflip with a set, however if you miss the turn, you're behind top pair so you wanna get some money in now when you're likely good or close to it. Also, this may buy you a free card.

[/ QUOTE ]

If I raise, how much do I raise?

Also, any comments on the turn/river?

[DavidC]

Any comments on the turn/river?

[TheWorstPlayer]

Well, this is my favorite type of hand because I think it is misplayed on every street.

Preflop:
Fold. KJs is a crappy hand. Play it in LP only after at least a few limpers.

Flop:
Raise. His overbet is garbage. Most likely he will fold if you raise which is fine with you. If not, you have a monster draw and don't mind getting it all in here. The fact that your draw is a true OESFD means that you are in better shape than a normal OESD+FD against a set because if they fill up, you can still beat them with two outs. Don't be afraid to get it all in here. But you only have so much equity on the flop. On a blank turn, they can price you out. So play the flop hard.

Turn:
Min raise = suck.

River:
Well, the deck is completely crippled so you can't really expect him to call anything. I think the only thing you can hope for is that he calls with you with 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif or something. Just push it all in. The more you look like you don't want a call, the more he may be inclined to make a heroic one. Nobody is going to call a normal value bet on this ridiculous board.

[tbach24]

Make it like 8-10 to go. I might even push.

[DavidC]

[ QUOTE ]
Well, this is my favorite type of hand because I think it is misplayed on every street.

[/ QUOTE ]

/images/graemlins/smile.gif I think I love you, man. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[ QUOTE ]

Preflop:
Fold. KJs is a crappy hand. Play it in LP only after at least a few limpers.

Flop:
Raise. His overbet is garbage. Most likely he will fold if you raise which is fine with you. If not, you have a monster draw and don't mind getting it all in here. The fact that your draw is a true OESFD means that you are in better shape than a normal OESD+FD against a set because if they fill up, you can still beat them with two outs. Don't be afraid to get it all in here. But you only have so much equity on the flop. On a blank turn, they can price you out. So play the flop hard.

Turn:
Min raise = suck.


[/ QUOTE ]

Sure... Assuming the same action before the turn, what should I raise on the turn; is 9 okay?

How about the flop? What should I raise there?

[ QUOTE ]

River:
Well, the deck is completely crippled so you can't really expect him to call anything. I think the only thing you can hope for is that he calls with you with 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif or something. Just push it all in. The more you look like you don't want a call, the more he may be inclined to make a heroic one. Nobody is going to call a normal value bet on this ridiculous board.

[/ QUOTE ]

Very good point, thanks!

[DavidC]

[ QUOTE ]
Make it like 8-10 to go. I might even push.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm obviously a little nervous about putting in 8 to 10, because I don't want to get 1/3 half my stack in there and then get hung out to dry on a blank turn.

If I push, I COULD get 2 pr to call. That would be sweet.

[tbach24]

Yeah pushing is the best.

[TheWorstPlayer]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Well, this is my favorite type of hand because I think it is misplayed on every street.

[/ QUOTE ]

/images/graemlins/smile.gif I think I love you, man. /images/graemlins/smile.gif



[/ QUOTE ]
Well, that's always nice to hear! /images/graemlins/grin.gif

And I would make it $10 on the flop. If he calls and checks the turn, assume he's calling if you push, so you should take your free card. If you improve, you will still have a good chance of getting it all in since he may very well bet the river since you checked the turn through. If you don't improve, you have no showdown value so you can fold if he bets or you can bluff if you think it will work. Notice how checking the turn to keep some ammo to bluff the river is a good move. If you push it in on the turn and he has a hand like AJ, he may very well call and then beat you with A high on the river (assuming turn and river blanks). Much better to check the turn, and then if he still has no pair, he will be fairly likely to check/fold the river since his 'draw' missed.

[zaxx19]

[ QUOTE ]
Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with K, J. SB posts a blind of $0.1.
1 fold, Hero calls $0.25, MP1 calls $0.25, 1 fold, CO calls $0.25, Button calls $0.25, 1 fold, BB checks.


Flop: ($1.35) Q, T, 2 (5 players)


[/ QUOTE ]

Im all-in on a CR.

You will usually be ahead of any caller and furthermore usually take it down right there.

On this board given the preflop play this is SUCH a EV+ move bc you are really only worried about 22 and QT isnt gonna get away from this if he is conscious.

PUSH THAT FLOP AND HOPE FOR A CALLER OR BETTER YET 2&gt; /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[TrailofTears]

Most everything has already been said, but your line of call the flop, then min-raise the turn when the flush hits is transparent. Your flop raise will make it look like you don't want the flush to get there either, so when it hits you might still get action. Oh, and with more in the pot and less in your stacks on the turn, villain will never even see the fourth heart hit the river, so he will be more inclined to call with his top two on the turn (which I am pretty sure he has).

Though I understand that you don't want to lose the players left to act behind you.

-Trail

[DavidC]

[ QUOTE ]
Most everything has already been said, but your line of call the flop, then min-raise the turn when the flush hits is transparent.

[/ QUOTE ]

Transparent meaning it tells him I have a flush or that I have a straight flush?

I don't care if he thinks I have the flush, I want him to try to suck out on me with a set or a suited ace.

I'm getting a little cash in before he realizes that it isn't going to happen.

[ QUOTE ]
Your flop raise will make it look like you don't want the flush to get there either, so when it hits you might still get action. Oh, and with more in the pot and less in your stacks on the turn, villain will never even see the fourth heart hit the river, so he will be more inclined to call with his top two on the turn (which I am pretty sure he has).

Though I understand that you don't want to lose the players left to act behind you.

-Trail

[/ QUOTE ]

Good points, though.

I should definitely be pushing the hell out of this flop in the future.

I really really really hate putting some of my cash in, so I guess I just have to jam it all in there and hope for the best.

--Dave.

[tree_stump]

Here's a related question... I definitely pop the flop. However, I don't think I'm raising the turn. I have a straight flush, and he doesn't. I call the turn and give him a chance to bet the river. I push after he opens the river, especially if it's a weak lead.

Thoughts on that turn/river line?

[nightlyraver]

I think that your turn play was excellent. You really did give up a small amount of present equity in exchange for the possibility of huge equity. Unless he has a made flush, I can't really see him calling a raise much bigger than $3, but maybe a $4-$5 raise would have been called as well. My only comment is that I believe that you should have raised on the flop. Forget the rest of the hand - that's WAY too results oriented. Look at it like this: I put him on AQ,KQ,QJ,QQ,TT,22,KK,AA,A2o or maybe even just a straight up draw. Really at this level you see all those types of hands making a pot bet like that. The next thing to consider is the probability of making your hand (straight/flush/str8-flush) - 15 outs, which is about a 60% chance to hit by the river. This makes you the favorite over EVERY possible holding unless he has something like A /images/graemlins/heart.gif2 /images/graemlins/heart.gif. I consider this to be a REALLY big hand and you can expect lots of action from MANY 2nd best hands. This is a PP $25NL table, right? You really gotta bet big on all streets at this level since it's easy to get paid off provided that the board isn't too scary. A scary turn will often dry up your action and it will be hard to double up. Even in the actual hand, you made the best possible hand, but you lost so much flop equity and only extracted $6 more from that hand.

[DavidC]

[ QUOTE ]
I think that your turn play was excellent. You really did give up a small amount of present equity in exchange for the possibility of huge equity. Unless he has a made flush, I can't really see him calling a raise much bigger than $3, but maybe a $4-$5 raise would have been called as well. My only comment is that I believe that you should have raised on the flop. Forget the rest of the hand - that's WAY too results oriented. Look at it like this: I put him on AQ,KQ,QJ,QQ,TT,22,KK,AA,A2o or maybe even just a straight up draw. Really at this level you see all those types of hands making a pot bet like that. The next thing to consider is the probability of making your hand (straight/flush/str8-flush) - 15 outs, which is about a 60% chance to hit by the river. This makes you the favorite over EVERY possible holding unless he has something like A /images/graemlins/heart.gif2 /images/graemlins/heart.gif. I consider this to be a REALLY big hand and you can expect lots of action from MANY 2nd best hands. This is a PP $25NL table, right? You really gotta bet big on all streets at this level since it's easy to get paid off provided that the board isn't too scary. A scary turn will often dry up your action and it will be hard to double up. Even in the actual hand, you made the best possible hand, but you lost so much flop equity and only extracted $6 more from that hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for your comments.

I'll be pushing on the river in the future, and probably pushing all in on the flop.

There's absolutely no way I'm going to make a raise for a free card in a small pot vs a big bet, but I'll try it if the pot's bigger and the stacks are deeper and the bet is smaller.

--Dave.

[soah]

Raising the flop is not good here. You've got three people acting behind you on a huge action board. The BB overbet the pot into that field. He loves his hand. The odds of winning this pot without showing down the best hand are not very good. If you raise here you will often end up out of position on the turn with half your stack in the pot and no hand, or you could end up getting all your chips in the pot on a coinflip with virtually no dead money. If you just call here you can keep in some of the other players to help boost your pot odds, and you have the chance to get your money in as a huge favorite if you hit rather than getting it in on the flop when you have virtually no overlay.

[edge]

HAT EQUITY

Check the river through. I don't believe you get the hat if there is no showdown.

[nightlyraver]

I completely disagree with your point of view - sorry! You have two critical errors if your analysis. First, once an early player overbets that pot and another early player flat calls, it is quite unlikely that someone else will simply call. They will either raise big with a monster or fold. The second error is the fact that you call the hand a coin-flip - IT'S NOT!!! You are about a 20% favorite to win against 1 player in most cases. This I feel is a big edge. With such an advantage, I'm trying to get all my money in right now every day of the week and twice on Sundays!

[DavidC]

[ QUOTE ]
HAT EQUITY

Check the river through. I don't believe you get the hat if there is no showdown.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you get a hat for having a royal flush?

[edge]

At Party Poker (not Empire and skins, as far as I know), if you e-mail support and include the hand history, they're supposed to send you a hat. I hit a Royal a few months ago, and still no hat (they claimed to have sent it).

It's almost definitely a garbage hat, by the way. I'm just a sucker for free things.

[DavidC]

Well, thanks for hte info and nice to meet you (I'm near Toronto myself).

I don't know... I guess at a $25nl game I can do that, but at any higher stakes, I don't want the guy to see my hand if I can avoid it, and thus, I'd forgo the hat in favour of the concealment.

/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[TheWorstPlayer]

You WANT another player to raise big. You have WAY more 1/3 equity and would be very happy to get it all in against TWO players. I still think raising is fine because you will be raising made hands quite frequently here and if you raise you will get a free look at the river most likely with tons of outs whereas if you call you still may get no callers behind you and then you are forced to fold the turn, so I'm still not sure that raising is no good, but I definitely see soah's points. There are, of course, not 'critical errors'. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[DavidC]

[ QUOTE ]
Raising the flop is not good here. You've got three people acting behind you on a huge action board. The BB overbet the pot into that field. He loves his hand. The odds of winning this pot without showing down the best hand are not very good. If you raise here you will often end up out of position on the turn with half your stack in the pot and no hand, or you could end up getting all your chips in the pot on a coinflip with virtually no dead money. If you just call here you can keep in some of the other players to help boost your pot odds, and you have the chance to get your money in as a huge favorite if you hit rather than getting it in on the flop when you have virtually no overlay.

[/ QUOTE ]

Vs two pair I have overlay, but not vs a set.

Do you think this guy has a set?

If I'd hit a straight on the turn instead of a flush, I could have screwwed this guy up really bad.

/images/graemlins/smile.gif

--Dave.

[soah]

[ QUOTE ]
The second error is the fact that you call the hand a coin-flip - IT'S NOT!!! You are about a 20% favorite to win against 1 player in most cases.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're a 20% favorite against what? Ace high? You're only a small favorite over a pair of queens. You're 50.6% to win against two pair without a heart. Against 22 with the 2h you're at 42% to win the hand.

[soah]

Board: Qh Th 2s
Dead:

equity (%) win (%) / tie (%)

Hand 1: 52.6955 % [ 00.53 00.00 ] { KhJh }
Hand 2: 47.3045 % [ 00.47 00.00 ] { TT, 22, AQs, KQs, QTs, Q2s, T2s, AQo, KQo, QTo, Q2o, T2o }


I went with the assumptions that he can't have QQ (would raise preflop) and that he could have any hand equal or better than KQ (he saw the flop for free in the bb). You have a monstrous 52.7% pot equity under those assumptions.

[mythrilfox]

A few points:

1. He almost certainly does not have a set. He bet over 2x the pot. I can understand wanting to price out the flush, but even someone with a set is not tricky enough to pull this. He'd either bet out less or go for a c/r.

2. I also don't think raising is that great of a play here. It's not as bad as soah is saying since Hero has position and can opt for a free card on the turn. (He will very rarely end up out of position on the turn with half his stack in the middle) But I would still call, both because the free card play is too transparent here, because villain is very unlikely to re-raise Hero back all-in on the flop, because there are still a few people left to act behind you, and because it's questionable whether or not you can win this pot without showdown.

Let's look at a few scenarios:

Villain bets $3, Hero raises to $10
a) A guy cold-calls behind. You're [censored].
b) Everyone folds, Villain calls.
(i) Turn is a blank, he checks, you check. No good. He can check/fold a scary river with impunity.
(ii) Turn makes your hand. You bet again, Villain is clearly uncomfortable with his hand and will likely fold. By betting the turn again you are essentially saying the flush doesn't scare you. If you don't bet, you might squeeze out a little value on the river, but not much. Especially since a fourth heart completely kills your action on a straight flush or may allow him to outdraw you with the lone ace if you merely hit your flush on the turn. This is the only decent scenario for raising and it happens a minority of the time.

Villain bets $3, Hero calls.
a) Few people call behind, the more the merrier.
b) No one calls behind, no biggie.
(i) Turn is a blank again, Villain is probably not going to be betting too much here. He has made it clear he is uncomfortable with his hand on the flop, so I can't imagine that he'll be betting too much on the turn here. You can probably call again and get a good price on your draw.
(ii) Turn hits your SF, you should flat-call again and may get some value out of him on the river. You also allow him to make many second best hands, such as the lone ace high flush or a full house. These hands are going all-in on the river regardless, so I see no reason to raise the turn to try and build a pot and possibly scare him away. Even if your flush or straight hits I'd still flat-call, he probably is NOT drawing to a full house, and you can still get some value out of him on the river. Raising here will drop him.

[TheWorstPlayer]

Free card play is not transparent here (or anywhere). In limit maybe, in no limit I completely disagree since the stakes of raising are so much higher and the stakes of his being wrong are so much higher. Also he can't check/fold the river if you hit your straight. If he puts you on a draw at all, then it would be a flush draw. Also, how do you respond if you are the villain in this hand with, say, KQ or top two or whatever and the action goes:
Bet, raise, call.
Check, check.
Bet, push.

I think there is a very good chance that he could either call that river push incorrectly when you made your straight or fold incorrectly when you missed your draw. I think your position in this hand is very very powerful against what is most likely not a powerhouse from your opponent. You rarely see a set overbet like that on the flop.

[Huskiez]

I agree with soah here regarding the flop call, and I'm really surprised that so many people just want to start blasting this pot.

Hero has a big edge but how can he maximize his payoff?

I don't think it's by putting in a good chunk of your stack and then being put at a difficult decision on the turn if it blanks. Been there, done that.

Better way to go is call the flop. A couple of things can happen. You could get some callers after you. This is fine because you have a dominant draw and this helps to build a pot. You have many nut straight outs, and your flush outs are very likely good as well. Callers after you could potentially donate more to the pot, but you have to let them in first.

Moreover, you can get a raiser after you call, which I think is the best situation because you can now push when the action gets back to you. You get your money all in on the flop when you're very likely a huge favorite, and at worst a small dog. Fine.

I feel OP presented solid reasons why he only called, and very few responders even acknowledged this. It seems the overwhelming response is You have a straight flush draw, RAISE without looking at Hero's position (mainly the limpers after him) and stack size.

By the way, regarding the turn, I think a call is in order. While you might be charging him for drawing to a house, you pretty much deterred him from bluffing the river. I think you can extract more by just calling, and giving him a chance to bet into you on the river, and also be more willing to call you on a blank river with a marginal hand.

Lastly, on the river I like an all in. Give this guy a chance to think you're bluffing and making a big play.

[TheWorstPlayer]

First of all, I don't understand your location along with your avatar. Second of all, it was acknowledged that there was a good argument for flat calling the flop. However, I definitely don't think raising is a clear-cut bad play. What hands are people going to call with behind you here? There has already been an overbet and a call. Do you think someone is going to call here with a non-nuts flush draw? I don't think that is likely at all (and it is not likely someone has one anyways since you have two hearts in your hand.) Is someone going to call with mid pair? Top pair? Unlikely. And what hands are people going to raise with? Top two or a set maybe? What play do you make with a set if OP raises? Are you just going to fold it? I think that a set is pretty likely to push it in here even if you do raise. And it is unlikely that you are going to get overcalls here except possibly from the NFD, which is obviously horrible for you. It seems to me like you have to assume that the guys behind you are done anyways after an overbet and a call unless they have a set in which case they are likely to push it all in anyways. And if you can get then to laydown a set here, I'm pretty sure that is good, too, although I could be mistaken. The chances of them filling up and busting your straight or flush must outweigh the money they put in, though, no? Although I guess if villain has two pair or a set then they are taking each other's outs...

So it seems to me like we should focus primarly on the flop overbettor against whom, in a vaccuum, it is a clear raise IMO. If you feel strongly the other way, why don't you respond clearly to this argument?

[DavidC]

[ QUOTE ]
I agree with soah here regarding the flop call, and I'm really surprised that so many people just want to start blasting this pot.

Hero has a big edge but how can he maximize his payoff?

I don't think it's by putting in a good chunk of your stack and then being put at a difficult decision on the turn if it blanks. Been there, done that.

Better way to go is call the flop. A couple of things can happen. You could get some callers after you. This is fine because you have a dominant draw and this helps to build a pot. You have many nut straight outs, and your flush outs are very likely good as well. Callers after you could potentially donate more to the pot, but you have to let them in first.

Moreover, you can get a raiser after you call, which I think is the best situation because you can now push when the action gets back to you. You get your money all in on the flop when you're very likely a huge favorite, and at worst a small dog. Fine.

I feel OP presented solid reasons why he only called, and very few responders even acknowledged this. It seems the overwhelming response is You have a straight flush draw, RAISE without looking at Hero's position (mainly the limpers after him) and stack size.

By the way, regarding the turn, I think a call is in order. While you might be charging him for drawing to a house, you pretty much deterred him from bluffing the river. I think you can extract more by just calling, and giving him a chance to bet into you on the river, and also be more willing to call you on a blank river with a marginal hand.

Lastly, on the river I like an all in. Give this guy a chance to think you're bluffing and making a big play.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for the comments. I do appreciate a little support, whether I'm right or wrong. /images/graemlins/smile.gif I'll have to review this carefully, because it looks as though it's probably vastly different EV, but hard to tell which is higher.

I will definitely push the river in the future.

However, I'm not sure what's going on when I just cal the turn: will he bluff again on the river? Surely not when another heart falls (1/5 the time approx). Surely not when a straight card falls after I just called the flush card (1/5 time approx).

I'd like to price him out here rather than let him bluff 3/5 the time. He may even pussy out when a blank hits the river, figuring taht he'll give ME a chance to bluff.

/images/graemlins/smile.gif

However, I will say that if he's sufficiently aggressive, and will bluff / value bet this river at me, then I should probably call, because he's going to be betting more than the $3 that I raised him (or even $5-6 that I should have raised him), and will likely call a min-raise (edit: that is, a river minraise... though I don't know if stack sizes would favour push or minraise)). /images/graemlins/smile.gif

(But will perhaps not call a push... so I think the river bet may be a situation in which a minraise is actually justified... I don't know though. I don't have too too much experience in value-betting the river).

---Please forgive any errors in this post; I've been up for 23 hours.---

--Dave.

Edit: And I suck too, of course. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[TheWorstPlayer]

Min raise is the worst possible move on the turn. If you think he will call a raise, raise a lot. Get money in the pot. Otherwise (and this would be my default with the mortal nuts) call and hope he fires again on the river. If he checks the river, push.