View Full Version : If This Story Is True...
Check out this article. If this is true, think we'll have any debate on war with Iraq? web page (http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/articles/1678779)
Only problem is that this serves the Administration so neatly. Bush's father could catch some heat for letting Iraqis in, but aI bet most of the blame flows to Clinton and his stooge Reno. It also instantly eliminates much of the anti-war argument if true.
very common knowledge but not reported.
same as gen. benton parton and former head of fbi crime lab dr. frederick whitehearst (think thats his name) stating unequivocally that truck bomb couldnt be sole cause.
B-Man
10-23-2002, 08:11 PM
I'm surprised this was posted by you and not Brad; after all, conspiracy theories backed up with little or no evidence are right up his alley.
If there is convincing evidence that shows Iraq was involved in the Oklahoma City Bombing, then I don't think there can be any more debate over the war (though doves will say otherwise). However, nothing in that article convinces me that is the case. I also don't buy that McVeigh claimed he was solely responsible because he didn't want to be seen as a traitor to his country--thats ridiculous, he was already a traitor, regardless of whether foreigners were involved.
I think Saddam Hussein has to go, because we should not allow lunatics with a history of violence to acquire weapons of mass destruction. I don't think we should base the potential war on Iraq on flimsy conspirary theories; there are enough hard facts to justify the war without such theories.
all right; name one opinion ive posted that hasnt been backed up (probably partially) with some sort of evidence.
B-Man
10-23-2002, 10:24 PM
you are joking, right? either that or you have a very loose definition of "partially"
ok, how about something for which i expressed an opinion with no supporting evidence at all (in the form of hyperlinks to newspapers, etc.)
note that the links may not totally support my opinion, but at least provides a basic set of facts or somthing (like crime is way out of control in britain, which some posters here disputed but i think is provable beyond a shadow of a doubt and ive posted links to show it.)
brad
p.s. so name one
B-Man
10-23-2002, 10:57 PM
note that the links may not totally support my opinion, but at least provides a basic set of facts or somthing
I disagree, they do not support conspiracies, nor do they provide facts which support them (they may provide some facts, but not facts which would support the conspiracy).
Sometimes you provide links, but the links do not provide any hard evidence of the conspiracy, they usually just link to more unsupported opinions.
Here are two recent quotes of yours I copied after a quick search:
"in any event bin laden worked/works for the cia."
Please provide some evidence that bin laden works for the CIA.
Koffi Anan. - documented murderer
Please provide evidence (not opinion).
ok, fair enough.
1) its totally documented bin laden worked for the cia. whether he still does obviously no one knows. so we agree here. lets see, bush sr. was head of cia and mastermind of iran-contra, bushes and bin ladens are majority owners of that one super giant defense corporation i cant remember right now, draw your own conclusions there i guess.
2) on the issue of rwanda, genocide did occur there. thats a fact. the issues are a little murky but the canadian general on the ground there directly blames the UN and its policies for the genocide. -- i can get you links on this if you really want. (basically the UN gave one side safe haven, on the condition they turn in their weapons, then removed the protection, left them defenseless, and let their opponents slaughter them. and the canadian general on the ground who followed orders blamed UN - basically he said anan was responsible.)
its like saying that in bosnia the UN doesnt run prostitution rings child sex rings. thats documented that it does.
andyfox
10-24-2002, 02:30 AM
"What triggered Davis's investigation was a report immediately after the Oklahoma explosion of Middle-Eastern looking men fleeing in a brown Chevrolet truck only minutes earlier"
I recommend a reading of Chapter 1 of Daniel Ellsberg's book "Secrets" for an example of government "pressure" to find what suits it to find.
Immediately after a meteor burned up brilliantly in the atmosphere here in La-la land several years ago, authorities were flooded with calls claiming having seen people peering out of the portholes.
John Cole
10-24-2002, 08:24 AM
brad,
You should also be aware that our ambassadors and state department spokespeople were warned not to use the word "genocide" in reference to the situation in Rwanda because, had we done so, we were bound by UN agreements to intervene. Let's not attach all the blame to Anan.
John
so i guess youre half right since its common knowledge that bin laden worked for the CIA but obviously people dont think he does today.
but about the kofi anan, well i did post a link to google about the canadian general blaming UN (and anan in particular) for the killings, so i think i get half credit there too.
also those two things, if i recall correctly, werent the main point of my posts, but rather just some support, which may have been of the form of, look at this, this is unclear.
in other words, somebody may have said something like the UN is very good (some woman i think), and i said, how can u say that, its unclear but they may be guilty of genocide.
john cole: conspiracy theorist.
yeah right, like anyone believes that.
wheres your support? and even if you can prove it i still dont believe it!
brad brad the 'bman' man
B-Man
10-24-2002, 07:01 PM
Brad, I agree bin laden DID get support from the CIA years ago, but he does not work for the CIA now. That is the part of the statement I was referring to. I'd be completely shocked if you could come up with any credible evidence otherwise.
As for Kofi Annan, the comments of the general are a long way from proving he is a murderer. I agree the U.N. is a corrupt institution, as many (probably most) of its members are corrupt, but I disagree thaat Kofi Annan is a documented murderer. I don't think that article proves otherwise.
I accept those weren't your main points in your posts... but you did write them. Do you really believe those statements are true (particularly that bin laden works for the CIA)?
well i see youre willing to let me slide on anan. its probably more correct to say that he has some responsibility for the deaths in rwanda. but i see where most people would agree with that but disagree with him being a 'documented murderer', even though most people (including me) know next to nothing about the specifics.
as for bin laden, lets keep a couple things in mind.
a) theres really no proof that bin laden was behind 911. (except for a tape that anybody could make).
b) at first he was focus of afganistan invasion, then he wasnt.
c) supposedly cia officials met with him in august 2001 in dubai.
d) supposedly clinton adminsitration could have extradicted him but didnt.
e) its confirmed (back to afganishtan) the military/cia flew top al queda / taliban out of kandahar to safety in pakistan. but they said it was a mistake.
etc.
what im trying to say is the administration needed a boogeyman. which is not to say bin laden is a good guy or anything.
but lets face it. the bin laden family, which means his brothers, uncles, (father?) , whatever , are right now doing business with (big business) with america and bush family in particular.
so lets keep this in mind, and when i wrote 'worked/works' (worked and/or works), what i meant is that hey, its hard to tell what the heck is going on with these guys. the same guys (ollie north, who went on to be a senator) who said stuff like, to save the constitution we had to work outside of it, or you know, something like that. paraphrasing we had to burn the vill to save the vill, im sure.
i mean its a pretty safe bet that youre a decent person. but dont let that cloud your judgement. the world is run by evil people who just dont have the same standards of decency, morality, etc.
for example they worship a giant stone owl and conduct mock human sacrifices (they admit to the mock human sacrifices, defending against charges it might not be mock). im not kidding. search for bohemian grove and see what you get. nixon in his own memoirs wrote that bohemian grove was the most disgusting thing he had ever seen but that he had to go there for the political contacts.
i mean, come on, theyre talking on the nightly news about maybe we all need to take implantable microchips for our own safety. ten years ago you would have thought that anyone who would have said that was probably seriously disturbed, like in schizaphrenic.
B-Man
10-25-2002, 08:37 AM
well i see youre willing to let me slide on anan. its probably more correct to say that he has some responsibility for the deaths in rwanda. but i see where most people would agree with that but disagree with him being a 'documented murderer', even though most people (including me) know next to nothing about the specifics.
Not letting you slide at all. You linked to an article, but it is not any proof. If you think that article shows Anan is a documented murdered, you have a very loose definition of documented. Now Yasser Arafat, there is a documented murderer. I need a lot more evidence befere I agree about Anan.
as for bin laden, lets keep a couple things in mind...
Brad, none of items (a) - (e) you listed are the least bit of proof that Bin Laden works for the CIA. First of all, I think most of those statements are dubious in and of themselves (you even include the word "supposedly" in a couple of them yourself). You can't use unsubstantiated statements to back up another unsubstantiated statement! Show me some proof (not unsubstantiated statements) of (c) and (e) in particular and maybe you'll have a case.
Finally, Oliver North was not a U.S. Senator!
Where do you come up with this stuff?
brad,
To label me a conspiracy theorist is simply beyond the pale. LOL. Psss--I know you're joking (I hope)>
John
well ollie ran for senate or something. he got party support anyway. as for e
) , ive postednews stories conirming e) !
http://www.twoplustwo.com/forums/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=exchange&Number=158169&For um=All_Forums&Words=brad&Match=Username&Searchpage =3&Limit=25&Old=allposts&Main=158169&Search=true#P ost158169
http://www.spiked-online.com/Articles/00000006DA98.htm
anyway, ive seen a lot of articles and it was discussed a lot on talk radio.
but my point here is that you take things i say and even the most totally outrageous have something to them. not that i dont think theyre outrageous.
B-Man
10-25-2002, 04:53 PM
Brad, they may have "something to them", but that doesn't mean they are evidence of what you are suggesting. And certainly the fact that something is talked about on talk-radio doesn't prove it happened.
You make Fox Mulder look like a skeptic (I loved the X-Files by the way... I just like to see real evidence before I put any faith in outrageous claims).
what about e) ? it was on cnn and stuff but like 9 months ago or something.
you said show e), i showed e) right? (by the way the original worked/works meant like did work and may still work, for which i think i only really have to show that its debatable to prove my point)
what about operation northwoods, is that fiction?
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/news/20010430/
Jimbo
10-25-2002, 05:33 PM
If you ever get Brad to admit to a mistake without any qualifying "But's" I'll buy you a straw hat. Keep up the good work pointing out his fallacious posts, I believe I ran out of energy in my endeavors versus Brad.
Jimbo
totally untrue. i admitted i was wrong when i thought i had scabies.
Jimbo
10-25-2002, 06:05 PM
Brad,
This is true but you did it all on your own, and within the original post if my memory serves me correctly. I also meant to point out that between you and your father you guys know everything but then I wondered how much knowledge that left you alone! /forums/images/icons/smile.gif
Keep up the interesting posts Brad, I would be lost without a libertarian full of hubris to bash ocassionally.
JImbo
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