The art of the big laydown.

[droolie]

Button was a total freaking maniac but I knew the MP2 was so passive he would never raise unless he had the nuts. How many of you guys have the stones to lay this one down. A perfect read is literally friggin' owning (or leasing) suckouts!

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with T /images/graemlins/spade.gif, T /images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
3 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, <font color="red">Hero raises </font>, CO calls, Button calls, 2 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 calls.

Flop: (11.50 SB) T /images/graemlins/club.gif, 2 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 4 /images/graemlins/spade.gif (5 players)
MP1 checks, MP2 checks, <font color="red">Hero bets </font>, CO calls, <font color="red">Button raises </font>, MP1 folds, MP2 calls, <font color="red">Hero 3-bets </font>, CO calls, Button calls, MP2 calls.

Turn: (11.75 BB) 8 /images/graemlins/heart.gif (4 players)
MP2 checks, <font color="red">Hero bets </font>, CO calls, <font color="red">Button raises </font>, MP2 calls, <font color="red">Hero 3-bets </font>, CO calls, Button calls, MP2 calls.

River: (23.75 BB) A/images/graemlins/club.gif (4 players)
MP2 checks, <font color="red">Hero bets </font> , CO folds, <font color="red">Button raises </font>, <font color="red">MP2 re-raises </font>, Hero folds, button calls

Final Pot: 31.75 BB


Results in white below...

Don't look until you repond. Results shouldn't matter but they prove a point on this hand.

<font color="white"> MP2 had AA MHING. I lawdown g00t! When you are 100% sure you are beat lay it down!</font>

[Firefly]

I'm not good enough to lay that down. Nh dood. Nice read too..

[nickg1532]

I don't think I can lay this down.

[Isura]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not good enough to lay that down. Nh dood. Nice read too..

[/ QUOTE ]

[Scratch]

No way I lay that down. And I'm as weak-tight as they get.

[Belok]

No way you lay that down.
The fact that you're posting it means he obviously has AA, i dont even need to look at the part in white.

AA is the only hand anyone could possibly have to beat you, and you're getting what, 15:1 odds to call? On top of that, MP2 limped and then just called your raise preflop. He could very easily have AT, A2, A4, or A8. He also could have been slow playing another set and picked that time to wake up. You have to be right 93.3% of the time for this to be a correct laydown.

Sure it was correct in this instance and im glad you saved 2 bets, but this is not a laydown you should plan on making again. Imagine if he did have AT. Not only would you have tossed away a 32$ pot for a 2$ bet, but after seeing a loss like that I doubt you could think straight for the rest of your session.

Always call here.

[reubenf]

I have a mixed strategy here where I lay it down some percentage of the time. <font color="white">Approximately equal to my misclick frequency.</font>

[homebrewer]

I know that I couldn't manage to lay that hand down.

A couple questions:
1. What did you think that MP2 was staying in the hand with?
2. Is MP2 capable of holding a set of 8s?

[Isura]

Yeah, villian could have played 88 or a smaller set in this way if he's really bad. I don't fold here.

[jrz1972]

You're getting better than 13-1 on call. Surely MP2 (even if he's really really passive) has something like A4 often enough to make calling +EV.

[davelin]

I don't know if I like this. You have nothing pre-flop to suggest that AA is out there, still possible but the chances diminish.

If calling here is a mistake, it's a small one. If folding here is a mistake, it's a pretty big one. That leans me towards a call and a kick for the cat.

[einbert]

I'm not bad enough to lay that down.

[Belok]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not bad enough to lay that down.


[/ QUOTE ]
loll

[reubenf]

I thought this was an april fool's, but judging by the responses nobody else feels that way.

[Baseballer02]

I don't see how you're bragging about this. The cost of your error had it been a misread is pretty damn big.

[GrunchCan]

All I had to see was the board on the flop to know the answer to your question.

[scotty34]

April Fools?

[droolie]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't see how you're bragging about this. The cost of your error had it been a misread is pretty damn big.

[/ QUOTE ]



As proven, real idiots (leaving fat odds out) learn. So getting a greatly heated and needless discussion going (only true craftsmen hold a serious understanding) critically (key) ends routine suckouts before all hell as high as heaven above breaks your bankroll.

Do you see why? I'll let others explain.

[Bulbarainey]

i couldntve laid it down, nh

[Greg J]

[ QUOTE ]
April Fools?

[/ QUOTE ]

Totally.

[bottomset]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not bad enough to lay that down.

[/ QUOTE ]

remember that part in SSHE about you never being 95% accurate with reads well here's a perfect example

if you have played 2-3k hands with MP2 then maybe

[kapw7]

You obviously have super psychic abilities. The mortals who don't, they just call with a set, no flush - no str8 (3 5 anyone?) board, a maniac and 31:2 odds.

[droolie]

[ QUOTE ]
You obviously have super psychic abilities. The mortals who don't, they just call with a set, no flush - no str8 (3 5 anyone?) board, a maniac and 31:2 odds.

[/ QUOTE ]


I'm really surprised more of you LAG's aren't advocating going all-in. If I didn't have the hand reading skills of Obi-Wan Kenobi I'd reraise this fershizle until my dick fell of.

[johnc]

I could NOT fold this one - just to protect myself from myself. $2 is a cheap salve for tilt provention for me.

[kapw7]

I'm LAG and I'm (drunk) proud of it /images/graemlins/crazy.gif

[Isura]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
April Fools?

[/ QUOTE ]

Totally.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with this the more I think about it.

[droolie]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
April Fools?

[/ QUOTE ]

Totally.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with this the more I think about it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why do you say that? Do you think he really had AKo and I laid down a winner?

[scotty34]

Meh. Personally I thought this one was pretty see-through, but you got a lot of biters, so nice job.

I have seen two great April Fool's posts so far. This one (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&amp;Number=2051432&amp;page=4&amp;view=c ollapsed&amp;sb=5&amp;o=7&amp;fpart=1) was plain and simple, yet very effective knowing the nature of the people in the Zoo. This one (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&amp;Number=2051477&amp;page=5&amp;view=c ollapsed&amp;sb=5&amp;o=7&amp;fpart=1) had a LOT of hard work and time put into it, and is absolutely brilliant.

[droolie]

I don't know what would make you think this thread was a joke....


[ QUOTE ]
A perfect read is literally friggin' owning (or leasing) suckouts!

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]

As proven, real idiots (leaving fat odds out) learn. So getting a greatly heated and needless discussion going (only true craftsmen hold a serious understanding) critically (key) ends routine suckouts before all hell as high as heaven above

[/ QUOTE ]

[Peter Harris]

Nice read. Unless i had ~300 hands on MP2 and they had not raised till the river with the nuts (or 2nd nuts) i'd call this one.

How many hands did you have on MP2? how can you be 100% convinced it's AA/35 with no PFR? I'd like to know what your threshold number of hands is to make this read.

Regards,
Pete Harris

[scotty34]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't know what would make you think this thread was a joke....


[ QUOTE ]
A perfect read is literally friggin' owning (or leasing) suckouts!

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]

As proven, real idiots (leaving fat odds out) learn. So getting a greatly heated and needless discussion going (only true craftsmen hold a serious understanding) critically (key) ends routine suckouts before all hell as high as heaven above

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

I am adjusting my reply above. This thread has been upgraded from 'weak see-through joke' to 'not too bad.'

[Greg J]

Very well done droolie. Kudos to those that told you what a bad play this was.

I told someone the Pope died earlier today. That was just wrong.

[FreakDaddy]

I don't!!

What did MP have 35?? /images/graemlins/smile.gif Was MP2 tight/passive? Any numbers? I don't lay this down without a great read. I can't see any hand beating you here.

Ok, I just looked at the results. wtf. Sorry I wouldn't have guessed that MP2 cool called his aces. You're going to have to let me borrow your crystal ball bro! Please.

[Beavis68]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not bad enough to lay that down.

[/ QUOTE ]

That is what I was gonna say, just because you are 100% sure, doesnt mean you are 100% right.

[scotty34]

Actually I totally didn't even notice that. Though this thread is a joke, I may actually consider folding this hand if I knew MP2 woulnd't 3-bet without a very strong hand. I would also have to know that he is very loose PF. I didn't even consider that 3-5 would be the nuts here, no AA. He certainly is not folding an OESD off the flop, though limping and calling with 3-5 is VERY loose. Maybe they were sooted.

[FreakDaddy]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't know if I like this. You have nothing pre-flop to suggest that AA is out there, still possible but the chances diminish.

If calling here is a mistake, it's a small one. If folding here is a mistake, it's a pretty big one. That leans me towards a call and a kick for the cat.

[/ QUOTE ]

Secondededed. Actually I'd go find a pregenant cat and kick her.

Just kidding animal lovers! /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[car ramrod]

I hate you, I have been trying to figure out for the last hour how the hell anyone could possibly lay down a hand like this. No way I give him credit for AA. 35 was my first thought, but no way I'm folding. LOL
got me.
best one all day. (I give my boss my 2 weeks notice today, thought that was pretty good, this was better).

[elindauer]

Well, it's highly unlikely anybody has aces, given the preflop action. So that leaves only 53 to fear. Lots of players wouldn't play this hand though, so we should discount it some. There are, however, lots of two pair hands that many microlimit players play that just got there on the river. Microlimit players love aces, and they sometimes aren't the greatest hand readers to understand that 2 pair may not be good given the action.

You say this guy won't raise without the nuts, and apparently you know he'd play 53. If you know this, then you know it, and there's no point discussing it. For my money, there's plenty of doubt in this huge pot. I'm much closer to capping it then I am to folding.

-Eric

[elindauer]

Dear droolie,

FYI, Your passive opponent who would never raise without the nuts just raised without the nuts despite an open-ended straight draw getting there on the river. In light of this, you should not be folding to his raise in this huge pot.

Reading him for AA when passed up on two opportunities to raise preflop is crazy. Bad fold.

-Eric

[flopwell]

LMAO-bro you have TOO much time on your hands /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[droolie]

[ QUOTE ]
Dear droolie,

FYI, Your passive opponent who would never raise without the nuts just raised without the nuts despite an open-ended straight draw getting there on the river. In light of this, you should not be folding to his raise in this huge pot.

Reading him for AA when passed up on two opportunities to raise preflop is crazy. Bad fold.

-Eric

[/ QUOTE ]

And I thought this thread was dying....

You're right that he did not have the nuts but he's a bad player. He didn't see the 35 str8 until it was too late. He must have thought, "Oh boy I have the nuts on the river I can't lose!" and pressed raise. What I didn't show in the results was that the maniac button indeed had 35o and scooped the pot from our hapless MP2! MP2 typed in the chat box shortly thereafter "Oh crap I thought I had the nuts!" I think he went off and kicked the crap out of his cat. I typed "Ni han" in the chat box and beat off to Alizee.

I didn't include that because I would have never given maniac credit for 35 and my BIG LAYDOWN was based on the raise by MP2 alone.

You still think this was a bad fold?

[elindauer]

Dear droolie, I just read the other replies. You suck.

Eric

[elindauer]

[ QUOTE ]
Meh. Personally I thought this one was pretty see-through, but you got a lot of biters, so nice job.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't get it. Doesn't there have to be something funny about the April fool's joke? Maybe I'm not up on my poker humor. It seems to me that constructing a plausible post and getting reasonable answers is not hard, especially when you're posting in a microlimit forum where lots of posters are presumably newbies.

Here's one for you:

I raise UTG KJs. Button 3-bets. We get heads up.
Flop: QsTs8c. I check and just call.
Turn: 9s. I check. He checks. Damn.
River: 8d. I bet, he calls, MHIG.

How'd I play it? Oh yeah, April fool's. I'd never checck call this flop. This hand never happened. Suckers!


Yeah. Not funny.
Eric

[TomBrooks]

Response before looking: I figure I probably got button beat and I take a chance MP2 didn't enter the pot first to act with 35s, and I call two getting 16:1.

[droolie]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Meh. Personally I thought this one was pretty see-through, but you got a lot of biters, so nice job.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't get it. Doesn't there have to be something funny about the April fool's joke? Maybe I'm not up on my poker humor. It seems to me that constructing a plausible post and getting reasonable answers is not hard, especially when you're posting in a microlimit forum where lots of posters are presumably newbies.

Here's one for you:

I raise UTG KJs. Button 3-bets. We get heads up.
Flop: QsTs8c. I check and just call.
Turn: 9s. I check. He checks. Damn.
River: 8d. I bet, he calls, MHIG.

How'd I play it? Oh yeah, April fool's. I'd never checck call this flop. This hand never happened. Suckers!


Yeah. Not funny.
Eric

[/ QUOTE ]

Explaining jokes is always death but here goes...

Jerry Lewis is beloved by the French. Does that help?

[car ramrod]

I'm at work, so its not my time. lol

[CourtesyFlush]

I noticed in the hand history on the river it says "MP2 re-raises" instead of what it normally says, "MP2 3-bets". /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[gojacketz]

That is a big laydown. I don't think I could do it for two bets in a huuuuge pot like that. MP2 wouldn't even raise it if he had AT here?

Gojacketz