Standard or Laggro?

[toss]

Pokerroom 10 Handed 1/2

Folded to me in the Hijack and I raise with A/images/graemlins/heart.gif4/images/graemlins/club.gif Folded to the BB who calls. This BB is moreorless solid and knows how to defend. So the flop comes 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif5/images/graemlins/heart.gif or something like that. BB bets and I raise, he calls. Turn is a J/images/graemlins/spade.gif or something, BB checks and I bet. River is a /images/graemlins/diamond.gif, BB checks I check behind. Standard?

[jaxUp]

looks pretty good.

[UncleSalty]

Looks about right to me. I was tempted to say bluff the river, but I seem to be caugh bluffing on pokerroom way too often by solid players. On the other hand, he can't be that solid if he doesn't know Clarkmeister... /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Greg J]

[ QUOTE ]
Looks about right to me. I was tempted to say bluff the river, but I seem to be caugh bluffing on pokerroom way too often by solid players. On the other hand, he can't be that solid if he doesn't know Clarkmeister... /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
I would not consider a river bet a bluff here. It would be a value bet. But given that worse hands are likely to fold, and better hands might checkraise, I like the river check through.

Nice hand.

[davelin]

Personally I only pre-flop raise with A7o+ here, but I'm a weak-tighty.

[toss]

Thanks for the responses guys, villain turns over A/images/graemlins/diamond.gifT/images/graemlins/diamond.gif Theres no way I would have bet thet river.

[Greg J]

He should have played that hand a lot more aggressively. Anyone else 3 bet ATs preflop in a blind defense?

[DavidC]

Definitely bet this river. Definitely call a raise, unless you feel like three-betting it (that would be lagro, but still probably +EV). /images/graemlins/smile.gif

I think he's going to show you TT or A9o more often than he'll show you a three here. I don't htink he'll defend with much less than K3s or A3s, or 33, if he's got a three.

You can't assume that he's got diamonds either. The probability of that is low and heads-up he'll call to the river with a wide range of hands.

He may even be waiting to checkraise you on this river with ATo, thinking that you've already defined your hand as a pair earlier in the hand, so the ace likely didn't help you, but since you're also solid, you'd probably bet.

This is a sweet board for your hand. Get the cash!

--Dave.

[DavidC]

[ QUOTE ]
Looks about right to me. I was tempted to say bluff the river, but I seem to be caugh bluffing on pokerroom way too often by solid players. On the other hand, he can't be that solid if he doesn't know Clarkmeister... /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

It's really hard for me to bluff the river when I've got two pair, so I normally just bet for value instead.

Edit: I'm tired so I hope I'm not being an ass. Basically, two pair is a strong hand, and there's not too much likelihood that he has a 3 or diamonds.

I think the hero wins this, and he would have gotten a call HU vs a tough opponent.

--Dave.

[DavidC]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Looks about right to me. I was tempted to say bluff the river, but I seem to be caugh bluffing on pokerroom way too often by solid players. On the other hand, he can't be that solid if he doesn't know Clarkmeister... /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
I would not consider a river bet a bluff here. It would be a value bet. But given that worse hands are likely to fold, and better hands might checkraise, I like the river check through.

Nice hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

You make an interesting point (I'm tired, so please forgive me for not thinking of it already).

QQ would certainly call you, BUT the opponent doesn't have QQ. However, the opponent may have 77. 77 might not call. I'm not sure what kinds of hands a tough opponent would have, but a weakish ace seems likely, and that would be willing to pay.

What sorts of hands would you expect a villain to hold here? What hands would be raising, and which would be folding?

--Dave.

[DavidC]

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Thanks for the responses guys, villain turns over A/images/graemlins/diamond.gifT/images/graemlins/diamond.gif Theres no way I would have bet thet river.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow.

I still would have bet it, but wow. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[DavidC]

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He should have played that hand a lot more aggressively. Anyone else 3 bet ATs preflop in a blind defense?

[/ QUOTE ]

Hell yeah!

[bottomset]

David: toss only has a pair of 4's

i think the preflop raise is too aggro otherwise nice hand

[DavidC]

[ QUOTE ]
David: toss only has a pair of 4's

i think the preflop raise is too aggro otherwise nice hand

[/ QUOTE ]

Ah... another poster got the same impression I did:

That the river was

A /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

[Aaron W.]

[ QUOTE ]
Pokerroom 10 Handed 1/2

Folded to me in the Hijack and I raise with A/images/graemlins/heart.gif4/images/graemlins/club.gif Folded to the BB who calls. This BB is moreorless solid and knows how to defend. So the flop comes 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif5/images/graemlins/heart.gif or something like that. BB bets and I raise, he calls. Turn is a J/images/graemlins/spade.gif or something, BB checks and I bet. River is a /images/graemlins/diamond.gif, BB checks I check behind. Standard?

[/ QUOTE ]

Where's the hijack?

[DavidC]

1 to the right of CO.

In this case MP3, but at a casino with 11 players: CO-1 /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[toss]

I've never heard of Casinos spreading games with 11 seats. Probably makes a lot of difference.

The table was tight so I raised. I'm not laggro am I?

[MrWookie47]

Postflop was rock solid. The preflop raise may have been marginal, but played well, I think it could be profitable.

[UncleSalty]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
David: toss only has a pair of 4's

i think the preflop raise is too aggro otherwise nice hand

[/ QUOTE ]

Ah... another poster got the same impression I did:

That the river was

A /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, see I didn't get that impression. Mostly because he didn't capitalize the A and he told us later in the thread that the villan had the A /images/graemlins/diamond.gif. But thanks for implying I'm such a jackass. /images/graemlins/shocked.gif

[SlantNGo]

11-handed is common practice in Ontario, Canada. The games spread in casinos here are 2/5 (yes that's a 5, not a 4), 5/10, 10/20, and 20/40. We're weird.

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I've never heard of Casinos spreading games with 11 seats. Probably makes a lot of difference.


[/ QUOTE ]

[DavidC]

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[ QUOTE ]
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David: toss only has a pair of 4's

i think the preflop raise is too aggro otherwise nice hand

[/ QUOTE ]

Ah... another poster got the same impression I did:

That the river was

A /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, see I didn't get that impression. Mostly because he didn't capitalize the A and he told us later in the thread that the villan had the A /images/graemlins/diamond.gif. But thanks for implying I'm such a jackass. /images/graemlins/shocked.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

No no...

I was unaware that it was a random diamond. That made my advice too Laggro (kinda ironic, eh?).

MP3 raising with A4o... I don't think I like this either. On the button I'd say go for it though, providing that I have okay reads on the blinds.

--Dave.

[DavidC]

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I've never heard of Casinos spreading games with 11 seats. Probably makes a lot of difference.

The table was tight so I raised. I'm not laggro am I?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know, I wouldn't raise this in a tight game from this position, unless it was also a weak game.

Yeah, Casinos in Ontario spread 11 seats (at least Heron and Rama does, Gananaque (?) should follow suit and I don't know about brantford (?).

I've sat in a game with 12 players once and I have heard that they spread 13 in underground games in Toronto's chinatown, not that I've been there.

I'm going to make a quick post about this in the B&M forum. The house, when charging seat fees, increases their revenue by 10%, but if they've got a 40% margin at 10 seats, then it actually increases their profit by 25%!!

Basically, the seating for poker is less than the demand right now, so the casinos can pretty much do whatever they want: like charging 10% rake max $5 at a $2/$5 limit game in Rama. /images/graemlins/frown.gif

The slow rate of growth of supply, due to regulatory and political delays, doesn't help either.

--Dave.

[DavidC]

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11-handed is common practice in Ontario, Canada. The games spread in casinos here are 2/5 (yes that's a 5, not a 4), 5/10, 10/20, and 20/40. We're weird.

[ QUOTE ]
I've never heard of Casinos spreading games with 11 seats. Probably makes a lot of difference.


[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

2/5 is cool for a few reasons:

1) It really screws up the math of the game if you're working out implied odds and you're unfamiliar with it. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

2) It makes for a quicker game than $2/$4 when you're using $1 and $5 chips (1/2 blinds, 2/5 bets, it's really quick).

Basically it prevents the dealer from having to make change each round of big betting.

They follow a similar style at the Foxwoods tourney (eliminating the "red chip rounds"), which likely results in more hands being dealt hourly in that tourney.

It really does screw up people's judgements about chasing things like sets/boats, etc., though.