How high is your VPIP?

[IndieMatty]

After 60,000 hands at 15/30 my VPIP is still ridiculously high. But so is my 2+ BB/100 rate.



Any reason for concern?

I'm used to the variance by now....but something tells me in a sea of 17 and 19 VPIP, my __._ is frowned upon.

If this thread is useless, then we can play guess Matty's VPIP, whoever hits the nail on the head win's ummm something?

I won't know the new number until PT finishes my hand download from this weekend.

Sorry if this sucks, I've never posted a pokertracker thread before...I'm a little ashamed.

[DMBFan23]

I don't play 15/30, but at 2/4 I hover(ed) between 18 and 19. PFR between 10 and 11.

I know a winning 5/10 player whose VP$IP is between 21 and 24 at any given time. he's not a 2+2er but he plays really well postflop.

what's your PFR?

[IndieMatty]

I'd say I have the highest numbers out of anyone here. I actually don't know anything but the VP$IP off the top of my head. I'll post my stats tomorrow. And I will probably have to assume a new identity as I will lose all poker credibility I'm sure.

Not that I had much...

[DMBFan23]

IMO if you can win playing slightly looser I think more people would want to know your secret rather than critique. 60K still aint huge but it is fairly likely you win.

[Beavis68]

I will guess in the 25% ball park.

That is where I run on PS, no where near your limits of course, but the tables are really loose, and suited cards are big winners for me.

I am also running high for two broadway cards.

[IndieMatty]

Yeah I know 60K isnt huge..that's why I want to nip this in the bud... but I've probably got 10-15K at lower limits at the same VP$IP. It's actually been consistant, cept for the rollercoaster weekends when I go up and down 200BBs swings. I had one REALLY bad downswing when I tried adding a 3rd table. I dropped 500+ BBs, but recovered from that nicely with a much larger upswing in March.(My rationale for the 3rd table causing my downswing is that I don't have a good computer so I have to switch over, and that gets very hectic...New Dell 9300 is on the way so I may try adding a third soon) as for my secrets? I think I play better then most, post-flop but remember I'm only playing 2 games at once..so it's easier to make "plays".

[stoxtrader]

I run at about 20vpip, two things -

1) are you including shorthanded numbers?
2) you probably steal a lot and defend liberally in both blinds.

otherwise, much over that I believe is not optimal, but would love to be proved wrong.

[IndieMatty]

Stox. I doubt I'm proving YOU wrong. I defend very liberally. I know this is probably where the leak is...I defend with almost anything playable.

Weird thing is I probably don't steal enough. Sometimes I won't even get involved with a low Ace depending on who I have in the blinds. I generally muck every offsuit ace too.

I'm definitely higher then 20.

[mmbt0ne]

Haha, this number's really bothering you isn't it? Well, I can say that I am probably one of the tightest players on here, and I hate it. Maybe you can send some of your extra VPIP my way.
<font color="white">I know your loc said 25, but I'm betting it's more like 26.4</font>

[sthief09]

it would probably be helpful for you to post a screenshot of your position stats tab sorted 7-10 players. maybe you're ridiculously loose on the button and in the CO, which woulnd't be such a bad thing. it's possible that you play a lot of shorthanded and you're very loose there, or that you win a lot shorthanded and your high winrate can be attributed to that. how many tables do you play. if you played 60k hadns I'm assuming it's 4, but if it's 1 or 2 then you can afford to play more hands.

also note your SD over that sample is probably about .8 BB/100, so it's possible you're just running good.

[IndieMatty]

<font color="white">Dude you're ruining it! cough HIGHER! </font>

[Schneids]

I bet if we filtered it to show your vpip for each # of people at the table from 2-10 I could give you a run for your money. Unless you are actually like 25-26vpip in a 10 handed game, then I quickly concede.

[IndieMatty]

[ QUOTE ]
it would probably be helpful for you to post a screenshot of your position stats tab sorted 7-10 players. maybe you're ridiculously loose on the button and in the CO, which woulnd't be such a bad thing. it's possible that you play a lot of shorthanded and you're very loose there, or that you win a lot shorthanded and your high winrate can be attributed to that. how many tables do you play. if you played 60k hadns I'm assuming it's 4, but if it's 1 or 2 then you can afford to play more hands.

also note your SD over that sample is probably about .8 BB/100, so it's possible you're just running good.

[/ QUOTE ]


Hmmm I play 2 tables at once. I went through a bad downswing where I played 3 tables. I got rid of the third table, and really havent had any issues since.

I really don't think I'm too loose in late position, I guess it's not worth the speculation until I can show you guys some stats. (I'm also aware I may just be running good) I already know one major leak of mine is calldowns when I know I'm beat..psychologically I am still trying to work on this.

As for sorting pokertracker, I'll try and post some screenshots, I'm not very adept at using it because it really f's up my crappy PC so I get frustrated using it.

I have to download the HH's before I go to work because it takes so f'n long. I can't use playerview...blah blah.

Hopefully my new machine will improve my game a bit.

[IndieMatty]

Concede.

I don't play short handed. Ever.

[Schneids]

Wow. That's awesome. I'm now more curious about your PFR than your actual VPIP.

[IndieMatty]

Awesome? I mean my winrate is nothing special. I'm just umm more active?

[imported_stealthcow]

i think you have ~ 10 people really intersted in your stats now (including me)

mind posting them?


stealthcow-

[Schneids]

[ QUOTE ]
Awesome?

[/ QUOTE ]

Awesome; as in, it inspires awe out of me.

[IndieMatty]

I'm at work now. Tonight. Screenshots.

Feel the tension.

[James282]

[ QUOTE ]
After 60,000 hands at 15/30 my VPIP is still ridiculously high. But so is my 2+ BB/100 rate.



Any reason for concern?

I'm used to the variance by now....but something tells me in a sea of 17 and 19 VPIP, my __._ is frowned upon.

If this thread is useless, then we can play guess Matty's VPIP, whoever hits the nail on the head win's ummm something?

I won't know the new number until PT finishes my hand download from this weekend.

Sorry if this sucks, I've never posted a pokertracker thread before...I'm a little ashamed.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's quite possible that you have just been running very well.
-James

[AviD]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
After 60,000 hands at 15/30 my VPIP is still ridiculously high. But so is my 2+ BB/100 rate.



Any reason for concern?

I'm used to the variance by now....but something tells me in a sea of 17 and 19 VPIP, my __._ is frowned upon.

If this thread is useless, then we can play guess Matty's VPIP, whoever hits the nail on the head win's ummm something?

I won't know the new number until PT finishes my hand download from this weekend.

Sorry if this sucks, I've never posted a pokertracker thread before...I'm a little ashamed.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's quite possible that you have just been running very well.
-James

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd suspect the same. 200-500BB swings (as you mentioned in another post in this thread) is pretty insane and if that's running average...a "bad" run could really set you on the downside of 1000-2000BBs quickly.

60K hands is a healthy subset but it is entirely possible you are just running well througout and enough where your good runs are 2BB/100+ over your bad runs.

But I am interested in seeing if you can somehow sustain this over another 60K hands or more. Anything over 24 VPIP seems quite high to me in full games (I'm probably 16-18 VPIP in full games)...and if you are talking like 40%+ over 60K hands, I just can't see how 40% of all possible hands are 2BB/100, but I can see you running good and 40% of the hands you've gotten are capable of making 2BB/100.

Keep us posted on the progress.

[sthief09]

my old computer would make me tilt because it was so slow with PT and PV and stuff. eventually I had to stop using PV. I got my computer for 1k and it does everything and doesn't lag.

[IndieMatty]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
After 60,000 hands at 15/30 my VPIP is still ridiculously high. But so is my 2+ BB/100 rate.



Any reason for concern?

I'm used to the variance by now....but something tells me in a sea of 17 and 19 VPIP, my __._ is frowned upon.

If this thread is useless, then we can play guess Matty's VPIP, whoever hits the nail on the head win's ummm something?

I won't know the new number until PT finishes my hand download from this weekend.

Sorry if this sucks, I've never posted a pokertracker thread before...I'm a little ashamed.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's quite possible that you have just been running very well.
-James

[/ QUOTE ]


I fear this is the reality. But I don't really deviate from the standard starting hands...

[MaxPower]

From my observations, most of the 2+2ers are about 19 plus or minus 2. Mine is 19 exactly.

I don't know how someone could get as high as 25 withought overdefending the blinds or cold-calling raises with unsuited cards (as I see many otherwise solid players do).

I'm really curious what your screen name is. Could you PM it? I'll look you up in my database.

The fact that you've had a 500BB downswing and still have that win rate for 60,000 hands is amazing to me.

[AviD]

[ QUOTE ]
I fear this is the reality. But I don't really deviate from the standard starting hands...

[/ QUOTE ]

Then it sounds like you are just on a good wave of cards, where the majority of your hands are holding up in the realm of 2BB/100+.

[IndieMatty]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
After 60,000 hands at 15/30 my VPIP is still ridiculously high. But so is my 2+ BB/100 rate.



Any reason for concern?

I'm used to the variance by now....but something tells me in a sea of 17 and 19 VPIP, my __._ is frowned upon.

If this thread is useless, then we can play guess Matty's VPIP, whoever hits the nail on the head win's ummm something?

I won't know the new number until PT finishes my hand download from this weekend.

Sorry if this sucks, I've never posted a pokertracker thread before...I'm a little ashamed.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's quite possible that you have just been running very well.
-James

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd suspect the same. 200-500BB swings (as you mentioned in another post in this thread) is pretty insane and if that's running average...a "bad" run could really set you on the downside of 1000-2000BBs quickly.

60K hands is a healthy subset but it is entirely possible you are just running well througout and enough where your good runs are 2BB/100+ over your bad runs.

But I am interested in seeing if you can somehow sustain this over another 60K hands or more. Anything over 24 VPIP seems quite high to me in full games (I'm probably 16-18 VPIP in full games)...and if you are talking like 40%+ over 60K hands, I just can't see how 40% of all possible hands are 2BB/100, but I can see you running good and 40% of the hands you've gotten are capable of making 2BB/100.

Keep us posted on the progress.

[/ QUOTE ]


I think I misrepresentd myself with swings. I had that one horrible downswing. But my "swings" are in the course of a weekend. I'll play thursday night and win 100BBs, go get pizza, lose that plus 50..stay up all night etc etc...before I know it it's Sunday and I'm back up 100BBs.

I don't think this counts as a swing?

[IndieMatty]

I definitely overdefend my blinds. I am trying to stop this. But not sure I should... /images/graemlins/crazy.gif

[IndieMatty]

I'm pumped, I really think player view will help me. I don't datamine, but I have enough hands with recognizeable names where the numbers will remind me.

I got a pretty decent laptop from Dell, setting up wireless and all that crap. If you're ever looking for WiFi in the 90s on bway...

[bicyclekick]

My guess also is you're running well. I speculate that with a 25%vpip one couldn't win more than .5bb/100 in the long term. 60k isn't even close to the long term.

[IndieMatty]

When people say "running well" does that mean I suck? Or I am being dealt pocket Aces more and they are holding up...etc etc.

I really don't see myself playing a wider range of starting hands.

I'll post my screenshot tonight.

Thanks for the comments,

Matt

[bicyclekick]

[ QUOTE ]
When people say "running well" does that mean I suck? Or I am being dealt pocket Aces more and they are holding up...etc etc.

[/ QUOTE ]

It means you're winning more hands than your fair share based on odds. You're getting more draws, having hands hold up, flopping big, etc. Doesn't mean you suck. I'm the biggest luck box around. It just means your winrate is not likely anywhere near 2bb/100.

[IndieMatty]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
When people say "running well" does that mean I suck? Or I am being dealt pocket Aces more and they are holding up...etc etc.

[/ QUOTE ]

It means you're winning more hands than your fair share based on odds. You're getting more draws, having hands hold up, flopping big, etc. Doesn't mean you suck. I'm the biggest luck box around. It just means your winrate is not likely anywhere near 2bb/100.

[/ QUOTE ]


Ok cool. Like I said, I'm aware of my biggest leak and am trying to fix it (ability to lay down hands, calling when I know I'm beat) etc. so I want to fix that before the luck dissipates.

[bicyclekick]

[ QUOTE ]
I think I play better then most, post-flop but remember I'm only playing 2 games at once..so it's easier to make "plays".

[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Ok cool. Like I said, I'm aware of my biggest leak and am trying to fix it (ability to lay down hands, calling when I know I'm beat) etc. so I want to fix that before the luck dissipates.

[/ QUOTE ]

Those two don't seem to go together.

Sounds like the biggest leak is playing too many hands pre-flop.

[Siingo]

[ QUOTE ]
My guess also is you're running well. I speculate that with a 25%vpip one couldn't win more than .5bb/100 in the long term. 60k isn't even close to the long term.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you are wrong. Ok I only play 5/10, but my VPIP is also high and still I have +2BB/100...

I have not enough hands at 5/10 to say that my BB/100 is stable. But if I take al limits between 1/2 - 5/10 then I have a VPIP : 25 &lt; my VPIP &lt; 30 and my BB/100: +2BB. And I have 135 000 hands.

But I think I can get a higher BB/100 if I get a litle tighter. Maybe 25 would be nice. Working on it! Atlest it would be nice to get ridd of some of the swings. I have not have a 500BB downswing but I have had a 280BB downswing, and preaty many around 200 BB downswings.

Not enough hands maybe to get a accurate BB/100, but I think it is enough to say that I am above .5BB/100.

Shall be nice to see if your VPIP is above mine /images/graemlins/laugh.gif!
And it si nice to hear that here is more laggish people than me...

Have fun!

Edit: If I am lucky then I hope my luck wont end /images/graemlins/smile.gif.

[Justin A]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
My guess also is you're running well. I speculate that with a 25%vpip one couldn't win more than .5bb/100 in the long term. 60k isn't even close to the long term.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you are wrong. Ok I only play 5/10, but my VPIP is also high and still I have +2BB/100...

I have not enough hands at 5/10 to say that my BB/100 is stable. But if I take al limits between 1/2 - 5/10 then I have a VPIP : 25 &lt; my VPIP &lt; 30 and my BB/100: +2BB. And I have 135 000 hands.

But I think I can get a higher BB/100 if I get a litle tighter. Maybe 25 would be nice. Working on it! Atlest it would be nice to get ridd of some of the swings. I have not have a 500BB downswing but I have had a 280BB downswing, and preaty many around 200 BB downswings.

Not enough hands maybe to get a accurate BB/100, but I think it is enough to say that I am above .5BB/100.

Shall be nice to see if your VPIP is above mine /images/graemlins/laugh.gif!
And it si nice to hear that here is more laggish people than me...

Have fun!

[/ QUOTE ]

Is this in the full games?

[sthief09]

it is possible you're a very good postflop player, compared to the people at those games

[Siingo]

[ QUOTE ]
Is this in the full games?

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes.. Oh there is less than 7K hands 6-max too now when I think about it. Start too play 6-max last week. Preaty funny /images/graemlins/smile.gif..

If I take that away then everything is almost the same except that I have "only" 128 800 hands....

[IndieMatty]

Alright, let me have it you vultures.

P.S. Photobucket signup is annoying.

[censored], I can't see it. I don't know how to do this!

Sweet there it is, I had to change it to a gif. (Thats why it's blue).

I'm off to the gym, questions and comments when I return.

Thanks to everyone for checking this out.

-Matt




http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y94/IndieMatty/untitled.gif

[sthief09]

you need to save it as a jpg

I can walk you through it if you want. screenname on AIM is same as here

[IndieMatty]

I got it, thanks Josh.

[Siingo]

Are the competition at 15/30 really that much harder than 5/10 fullhanded that I should fall more than 1.5BB/100 in winrate?!

That suck! I really thought that 5/10 was a limit with good players since they have 6-max too... Well who have said that poker should be easy...

[Siingo]

Your VPIP was below mine /images/graemlins/smile.gif. But then again I only play 5/10.. When I get to 15/30 then I guess that I will be close to 25.... Hope so atleast /images/graemlins/smirk.gif... Nice winrate..

Have you tighten up alot at 30/60 or have you just had a bad run of cards?!

[IndieMatty]

I tightened up a bit. I lost a full buyin the other day in like 100 hands. /images/graemlins/blush.gif

[bicyclekick]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
My guess also is you're running well. I speculate that with a 25%vpip one couldn't win more than .5bb/100 in the long term. 60k isn't even close to the long term.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you are wrong. Ok I only play 5/10, but my VPIP is also high and still I have +2BB/100...

I have not enough hands at 5/10 to say that my BB/100 is stable. But if I take al limits between 1/2 - 5/10 then I have a VPIP : 25 &lt; my VPIP &lt; 30 and my BB/100: +2BB. And I have 135 000 hands.

But I think I can get a higher BB/100 if I get a litle tighter. Maybe 25 would be nice. Working on it! Atlest it would be nice to get ridd of some of the swings. I have not have a 500BB downswing but I have had a 280BB downswing, and preaty many around 200 BB downswings.

Not enough hands maybe to get a accurate BB/100, but I think it is enough to say that I am above .5BB/100.

Shall be nice to see if your VPIP is above mine /images/graemlins/laugh.gif!
And it si nice to hear that here is more laggish people than me...

Have fun!

Edit: If I am lucky then I hope my luck wont end /images/graemlins/smile.gif.

[/ QUOTE ]

Heh, a few important things here.

1) At 6max of course your vpip is going to be higher. Mine is between 26 and 28%.
2) Yeah, the 5/10 players are significantly worse than the 15/30 players. I don't want to sound too condecending, but speculating about a game you have no experiance in is foolhardy.
3) You're sample size sounds wayyyyyyyy to small. I don't 'know' this but you said it yourself kinda.

[IndieMatty]

By Thiefs request:

I think it's safe to say I lose a shitload of money in the blinds, and that may be the cause of my VP$IP?

I'm also pretty big on position.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y94/IndieMatty/sexualposition.gif

[sthief09]

your position stats seem fine. you're just ridiculously loose in the blinds

[IndieMatty]

gamboool?

[bicyclekick]

You're most definately too loose in the blinds. You're bb won/hand (well, actually lost) is about right in them, but my guess is yo'ure just running well.

For comparison my blind #'s from my current DB at only 15/30 party:
http://epoxy.morris.umn.edu/~clarkbj/pokerss/blinds.jpg

[IndieMatty]

Headsup freezout right now!

JK, thanks for the advice and comparison.

[MaxPower]

bicyclekick,

My blind numbers are like yours. However, comparing my VP$IP to IndieMatty in other postions I am considerably lower in each one. He is playing 17% of his hands in EP while I am playing 11 or 12 percent. I used to play 15-16% at lower limits when I was limping with small pairs and suited aces.

Do people really play 25% of their hands on the button?

Am I too tight?

I do raise a lot more than him, so I have that going for me.

[Siingo]

[ QUOTE ]

Heh, a few important things here.

1) At 6max of course your vpip is going to be higher. Mine is between 26 and 28%.
2) Yeah, the 5/10 players are significantly worse than the 15/30 players. I don't want to sound too condecending, but speculating about a game you have no experiance in is foolhardy.
3) You're sample size sounds wayyyyyyyy to small. I don't 'know' this but you said it yourself kinda.

[/ QUOTE ]

1. It was only 7K hands!! It did not inpact on the stats I gave you since I did not give you the exact stats. All the stats I said I had is still true since 7000 hands do not change much when you have 135000 hands.

2. Well that one can I not argue with you about since I have not played there. But there seems too be people that manage to beat the game with more than .5BB/100 with high VPIP since the poster have done this.

3. Yes at 5/10 have I only 30 000 hands. That is why I posted with all limits. But 30K hand do I think is enough to say that I am above .5BB/100 atleast. Especially since I have run into some big downswings and still have almost the same stats there as I have on all the 128 000 hands....

[bicyclekick]

I'm sure our numbers are very close all around.

[bicyclekick]

[ QUOTE ]

1. It was only 7K hands!! It did not inpact on the stats I gave you since I did not give you the exact stats. All the stats I said I had is still true since 7000 hands do not change much when you have 135000 hands.


[/ QUOTE ]
you're right 7k of 135k wont have that much affect. If you're talking 7 of the 30 at 5/10, then yes it will.
[ QUOTE ]

2. Well that one can I not argue with you about since I have not played there. But there seems too be people that manage to beat the game with more than .5BB/100 with high VPIP since the poster have done this.
[ QUOTE ]


I REAAAAAAAAAALY highly doubt this. Maybe somebody like astro or diablo could pull off better than that with a 26vpip, but my guess is almost nobody else could. Of course they wouldn't do this as they know a lower vpip is going to be better.

[ QUOTE ]

3. But 30K hand do I think is enough to say that I am above .5BB/100 atleast.

[/ QUOTE ]

This isn't even close to true. Go run it through the math guys in the probability forum and they'll give you exact #'s. Double your hands and you're still not even going to be able to make that claim. See mike L's thread in mid-high. While he is way off on a lot of his posts, others have made some very concrete points.

[Siingo]

I was talking 7k out of 135K. If it would be out of my 5/10 fullhanded then I would boost my BB/100 alot becaus I have been runing very GOOD at 6-max /images/graemlins/laugh.gif hehe.

I shall do the math myself some other day. Long time sice I did this so it will be a good test for me.

But there is no exact number.. You can only get with a certen significans like 95%. If you want an exact number then you need a infinite samplesice and that is preaty hard to get..

And the probability is the same that I have only .5BB/100 as 3.5BB/100. I hope I have the later one /images/graemlins/laugh.gif!

And by the way.. Who say that the poster is a worse pokerplayer postflop than astro or diablo?! Have they beeten the crap out of him sometime?

Good night!

[JasonP530]

Seems like youre going to showdown a lot, and not winning as much there as many of the other players. I can assume that youre open raising big suited connectors(KT,KJ,KQ,AT) from UTG? You seem to be playing a lot of hands up front, though you say youre concerned about position. Your winrate when you see the flop is very high for positions other than the blinds. That could be the running well factor. It would do you a LOT of good to cut down on your blind defending. It seems as though youre doing well otherwise.

[helpmeout]

I think your looseness in early position is much worse than your looseness in the blinds.

Your SB isnt too bad because of the 2/3 blind structure you should be completing most times. However your BB is way too high.