Link for newer players

[Greg J]

I came across this hand on the SS forum. It's nothing spectacular, but you newer players might learn a little something from it. When I was a newer play there is no way I would have played the hand like it was played. As it stands now, I don't see that there is any other correct way to play it. Read the whole thread. To vets this will look standard (b/c it is).

link. (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Number=2015315&page=0&view=e xpanded&sb=5&o=14)

[shadow29]

This is an important read.

Keep in mind that your action differs significantly if someone other than the button bets.

Think about what happens if: (vets, don't answer, let's get a discussion)

EP bets, folded to you.
EP bets, some callers (number doesn't matter).
EP bets, a raiser (doesn't matter significantly if there are callers, but think about someone who is raising a bettor + callers, or just a bettor)
MP bets, folded to you.
MP bets, some callers.
MP bets, a raiser.

[Greg J]

[ QUOTE ]
Keep in mind that your action differs significantly if someone other than the button bets.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good point.

[Duerig]

[ QUOTE ]
This is an important read.

Keep in mind that your action differs significantly if someone other than the button bets.

Think about what happens if: (vets, don't answer, let's get a discussion)

EP bets, folded to you.
EP bets, some callers (number doesn't matter).
EP bets, a raiser (doesn't matter significantly if there are callers, but think about someone who is raising a bettor + callers, or just a bettor)
MP bets, folded to you.
MP bets, some callers.
MP bets, a raiser.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think I might fold all of these situations. Except for

MP bets, folded to you.

In which case I would raise. I tend to be a bit too weak tight though. Especially with medium-ish pocket pairs when overcards fall. I'm interested in hearing other responses.

[GrunchCan]

[ QUOTE ]
This is an important read.

Keep in mind that your action differs significantly if someone other than the button bets.

Think about what happens if: (vets, don't answer, let's get a discussion)

EP bets, folded to you.
EP bets, some callers (number doesn't matter).
EP bets, a raiser (doesn't matter significantly if there are callers, but think about someone who is raising a bettor + callers, or just a bettor)
MP bets, folded to you.
MP bets, some callers.
MP bets, a raiser.

[/ QUOTE ]

Cmon all you lurkers. Everybody respond.

[Shillx]

but you newer players might learn a little something from it.

I really learned a lot from this post. Thanks a bunch Focker. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

Brad

[shadow29]

Yeah, shill. I would've thought your line would only include one option:

open folding.

[Somekid]

I would fold every case except the actual hand and the mp bettor with folds to hero (i would raise that). Most of the time a person betting a flop like this has some sort of a hand even if its j with a weak kicker. The button would pretty much auto-bet this with overcards, so the check-raise is good. Sound correct?

[Ringo_Mojo]

Without a read, I think i would have open bet this instead of checking to begin with. I don't know about B&M or Higher stakes, but in the micros that i play in check raising doesn't seem to eliminate many players, and more often just lets everyone get a free card. Is this a bad way to look at the situation?

[shadow29]

Why do you think that betting out is better than checking? (Not being condescending, or sarcastic, etc.)

[Ringo_Mojo]

Well the way I see it, betting serves two purposes, it eliminates the weak/passive draws, and it gives me some info. If the button re-raises, i can put him on a good hand and would usually fold.
Checking would likely give all the draws a free card and then i'm blind on the river to who's a threat.

This is just from my limited experience online.

[cmwck]

[ QUOTE ]
This is an important read.

Keep in mind that your action differs significantly if someone other than the button bets.

Think about what happens if: (vets, don't answer, let's get a discussion)

EP bets, folded to you.
EP bets, some callers (number doesn't matter).
EP bets, a raiser (doesn't matter significantly if there are callers, but think about someone who is raising a bettor + callers, or just a bettor)
MP bets, folded to you.
MP bets, some callers.
MP bets, a raiser.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would fold all of these except for situations where it is folded to me (except not from an EP bettor), or if the bettor is to my immediate right.

Someone mentioned just betting out from EP instead of checking. Doing this certainly won't protect your hand, considering that at these stakes forcing everyone to call two cold sometimes doesn't even protect your hand (i.e. someone with a lone overcard to your 8's may still call).
Against a full field of players it probably isn't for value either.

But, say you're up against only one or two opponents. Then do you bet out instead of checking?

[DeathbySuckout]

Ok, since I'm a new player, I'll take a shot at it. Please let me know where I'm wrong.

EP bets, folded to you. Raise, fold to a reraise
EP bets, some callers (number doesn't matter). Fold
EP bets, a raiser Fold
MP bets, folded to you. Raise, fold to a reraise
MP bets, some callers. Fold
MP bets, a raiser. Fold

[jaxUp]

[ QUOTE ]
Well the way I see it, betting serves two purposes, it eliminates the weak/passive draws, and it gives me some info. If the button re-raises, i can put him on a good hand and would usually fold.



[/ QUOTE ]

This is pretty flawed thinking. It's good to bet to get rid of weak draws, but as early to act after the button, we have the chance to get rid of some slightly stronger draws by making them call 2 cold. Also, It is not a disaster if this gets checked through here. It's not like we have an overpair, or 2pair or something. I think it is reasonable to expect the button to bet the flop after raising preflop.

[kapw7]

Interesting link. But as the player says himself it will not work in limits below 3/6. Have you ever tried it in micro-limits?

[SlantNGo]

[ QUOTE ]
EP bets, folded to you.

[/ QUOTE ]

The size of the pot as it stands right now (he doesn't mention # of limpers after you) and the coordinated-ness of the flop (suits not mentioned) can swing my decision either way. We're OOP HU so there's not much point in raising, so I would tend to call the more coordinated the flop and bigger the pot, and fold the less coordinated and smaller.

[ QUOTE ]
EP bets, some callers (number doesn't matter).

[/ QUOTE ]

Call and lead a safe turn card, check/fold a bad one (i.e. an Ace).

[ QUOTE ]
EP bets, a raiser (doesn't matter significantly if there are callers, but think about someone who is raising a bettor + callers, or just a bettor)

[/ QUOTE ]

Fold. A raise is either a made hand stronger than yours or a strong draw. Your hand is very vulnerable to redraws and you might be behind already drawing to 2 outs.

[ QUOTE ]
MP bets, folded to you.

[/ QUOTE ]

Plays out the same as if EP bets, except MP's range of holdings is a bit weaker.

[ QUOTE ]
MP bets, some callers.

[/ QUOTE ]

Same as if EP bets & gets some callers.

[ QUOTE ]
MP bets, a raiser.

[/ QUOTE ]

Fold.