How's this fold?

[blackaces13]

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with J/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, MP2 calls, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB 3-bets</font>, Hero calls, MP2 calls.

Flop: (9.50 SB) A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP2 calls, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises</font>, Hero calls, MP2 calls.

Turn: (7.75 BB) 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, Hero folds,

[Yobz]

reads are good. against typical players i take this line. BB 3-bets pf...hes gotta have something good (most players who raise from the BB have good hands usually). the c/r shows even more strength plus that bet out on the turn...i think its a good fold.

[pointcount]

Assuming villan ISNT a lag. I check-call or check behind this flop and if checked to on the turn I bet. Isn't this a situation of way ahead or way behind?

[J.DP]

I'd play it the same.

Flop bet is easy when checked to, BB is going to have TT-KK quite often here but he'll still probably call down with it.

Once he check/raises it becomes clear he has AA/AK and you can safely fold the turn unimproved.

[J.DP]

[ QUOTE ]
Assuming villan ISNT a lag. I check-call or check behind this flop and if checked to on the turn I bet. Isn't this a situation of way ahead or way behind?

[/ QUOTE ]

Checking behind on this flop just misses bets in my opinion. The pot is fairly big and checking gives a free card to MP2 who we are not necessarily way ahead of.

Also BB is likely to call with inferior hands such as TT-KK.

[KaiShin]

If I were BB, I would play TT-KK this way.

I think you call it down unless you possess a read that says otherwise.

[J.DP]

[ QUOTE ]
If I were BB, I would play TT-KK this way.

I think you call it down unless you possess a read that says otherwise.

[/ QUOTE ]

The Party 0.5/1 game is very passive. I find it unlikely BB would 3 bet preflop and the check/raise an Ace high flop with less than AJ.

I think calling down is wasting bets. How often would you estimate Hero is ahead after the flop check/raise?

[KaiShin]

Not knowing our villain, I'd say a little under 50%.

AA - 1 way
AK - 8 ways
AQ - 8 ways
KK - 6 ways
QQ - 6 ways
JJ - 3 ways

[pointcount]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If I were BB, I would play TT-KK this way.

I think you call it down unless you possess a read that says otherwise.

[/ QUOTE ]

The Party 0.5/1 game is very passive. I find it unlikely BB would 3 bet preflop and the check/raise an Ace high flop with less than AJ.

I think calling down is wasting bets. How often would you estimate Hero is ahead after the flop check/raise?

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree. You should see showdown for the reasons outlined above.

[blackaces13]

[ QUOTE ]
reads are good.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, they are. Unfortunately the only thing I can say about BB here is that I didn't have notes on him and since I recall him being at the table for some time before this hand came up that usually means that he wasn't entering a lot of pots or doing much raising.

I usually have notes on about 6 or 7 of the other 9 players at my table and its always the better/tighter players who it takes me the longest to get notes on since they showdown less and play less hands preflop. I always make sure I check the HH for any PFR so I would imagine this guy didn't raise too much preflop (or he was able to get away from bad flops after a PFR) but I'm not 100% sure of anything about him really.

[blackaces13]

[ QUOTE ]
Not knowing our villain, I'd say a little under 50%.


[/ QUOTE ]

C'mon dude. If this is the same .5/1 that I play then surely you jest. There is absolutely no way on earth that I'm good even close to 50% of the time against 2 unknowns at Party .5/1.

I'd say I'm drawing to 3 outs or less against 9 out of 10 Party .5/1 players that aren't obvious maniacs. And I would have noticed if this guy was a maniac in any way shape or form (which I know I failed to mention). Part of the reason I didn't mention it was because I wanted to see how this was a default line against unknowns. I still think this may be the best line against unknown players.

[chesspain]

[ QUOTE ]
If I were BB, I would play TT-KK this way.

[/ QUOTE ]

Then you are a chip spewer.

[btspider]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If I were BB, I would play TT-KK this way.

[/ QUOTE ]

Then you are a chip spewer.

[/ QUOTE ]

[kapw7]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If I were BB, I would play TT-KK this way.

[/ QUOTE ]

Then you are a chip spewer.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is this a joke?

[blackaces13]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If I were BB, I would play TT-KK this way.

[/ QUOTE ]

Then you are a chip spewer.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is this a joke?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't like to respond for other people but I'm pretty confident that this is not a joke. Why would you CR 2 players, one of whom what a preflop raiser, at PP .5/1 where nary an A is folded preflop on an A high flop with TT-KK?

Do you think enough players will fold a small A here? Granted I folded an A but good luck getting an unknown there to do it. When the flop comes down A high there and you've got KK you're likely either way in front or way behind. You can be as aggro as you like but the most likely outcome of CRing a bet and call behind you are losing extra bets and making it harder for yourself to get away from a loser.

CRing as opposed to just betting out makes no sense to me in this spot IMO. What are you accomplishing? And what are you accomplishing by leading the turn after your CR eliminated no one? Are you betting for value anymore? Are you protecting?

[kapw7]

Sorry I probably misread the posts. I thought they were referring to PF play. Thanks for your reply. Agreed to that.