What do you think of my play on these two hands? [Archive]

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Bigwig

03-15-2005, 09:46 PM

Please comment.

1.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t15 (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

MP1 (t940)
MP2 (t960)
CO (t1190)
Button (t2530)
SB (t365)
Hero (t1000)
UTG (t2015)
UTG+1 (t1000)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
1 fold, UTG+1 calls t15, 2 folds, CO calls t15, Button calls t15, 1 fold, Hero checks.

Flop: (t67.50) 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif (4 players)
Hero bets t40, UTG+1 folds, CO calls t40, Button folds.

Turn: (t147.50) T/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero bets t75, CO calls t75.

River: (t297.50) 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
Hero bets t125, CO raises to t250, Hero calls t125.

Final Pot: t797.50

Results in white below: 
Hero has 5h 3d (two pair, fives and threes).
CO has 7c 7s (straight, seven high).
Outcome: CO wins t797.50. 

2.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t50 (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

SB (t720)
BB (t1710)
UTG (t860)
UTG+1 (t880)
MP1 (t1020)
MP2 (t1240)
CO (t2745)
Hero (t825)

Preflop: Hero is Button with A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
2 folds, MP1 raises to t150, 2 folds, Hero raises to t825 (All-In), 2 folds, MP1 calls t675.

Flop: (t1725) 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players, 1 all-in)

Turn: (t1725) T/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: (t1725) J/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: t1725

Results in white below: 
MP1 has Kc Ah (one pair, sixes).
Hero has As Qs (one pair, sixes).
Outcome: MP1 wins t1725.

lastchance

03-15-2005, 09:54 PM

1 is horrible, IMHO.
Preflop check is obvious.
I don't like the flop bet, though it's not horrible. I probably check/fold this, as your straight draw isn't strong, and your low pair is pretty lousy.
I hate your turn bet. I think you have to check/fold once your flop bet is beat, maybe call a bet of t30.
Your river bet is horrible. Maybe you can check/call at this point, but no hand calls you, and once you're raised, you've got to be beat.

Bigwig

03-15-2005, 09:58 PM

[ QUOTE ]
1 is horrible, IMHO.
Preflop check is obvious.
I don't like the flop bet, though it's not horrible. I probably check/fold this, as your straight draw isn't strong, and your low pair is pretty lousy.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I'm only against two players here. That's why I bet the flop. Hell, sometimes I'd bet with absolutely nothing here on a rag flop with only two callers on a bluff. But I wouldn't do that at this blind level.

Why is my straight draw not 'strong?'

[ QUOTE ]
Maybe you can check/call at this point, but no hand calls you, and once you're raised, you've got to be beat.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why do I 'have' to be beat? I have two pair. I'm not comfortable that it's the best hand (hence my call), but why are you sure I'm beat?

Thanks.

curtains

03-15-2005, 10:18 PM

I hate betting out the flop with 53. This is the kind of hand that looks a lot better than it is. Once I'm called I definitely don't bet the turn.

Bigwig

03-15-2005, 10:21 PM

Oops. I just noticed that I was against three opponents, not two. Normally I would check this against three.

What do you think of a check raise on this flop if I'm fairly certain that I can isolate one opponent?

Happy ending--I finished 2nd, and would've won if my A8o had held up vs. 53s heads up.

curtains

03-15-2005, 10:24 PM

I wouldn't normally check raise this no.

Bigwig

03-15-2005, 10:27 PM

[ QUOTE ]

I wouldn't normally check raise this no.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're too verbose. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

curtains

03-15-2005, 10:41 PM

Well there are situations where I would, but not normally /images/graemlins/smile.gif It would have to be special.

SuitedSixes

03-15-2005, 10:49 PM

Hand 1-
I've been leading out on flops like this as well, and I think it has been costing me for the same reasons you ran into. It was nice to see someone else do it in a HH to realize how bad it really is. You lead out because you've got a piece with a draw and wouldn't mind picking it up right there. Once you get called on the flop, you feel compelled to continue leading the action lest you show weakness, which is exactly what you have. You didn't voluntarily commit anything, go into check/fold mode. Lorinda's "Do you really need this pot" question seems to really apply here.

Hand 2-
AQs is not worth a call of this raise, much less an all-in over the top with 16.5 BB in level 3.

Bigwig

03-15-2005, 10:51 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 2-
AQs is not worth a call of this raise, much less an all-in over the top with 16.5 BB in level 3.

[/ QUOTE ]

You don't think AQs is better than an 11:9 favorite vs. the range raiser has?

curtains

03-15-2005, 10:52 PM

MAYBE but definitely not if he calls you.

Bigwig

03-15-2005, 11:04 PM

[ QUOTE ]

MAYBE but definitely not if he calls you.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, that's the chance you take with many, perhaps most raises, right? Much of the time you know that you're likely behind when you're called.

Let me think a little. A reasonable range is AA-77, AK-AT, KQ-KJ, QJ.

He'd probably call a reraise with AA-TT, AK & AQ, conservatively.

So, he folds about .6125 and calls about .3875. I've got .379 pot equity vs that range of calling hands.

So, .6125*225=137.8
.3875*.379*1700=249.7
.3875*(1-.379)*-825=-198.5

So, I think the move is +189 chip EV. Does this look right?

SuitedSixes

03-16-2005, 12:38 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hand 2-
AQs is not worth a call of this raise, much less an all-in over the top with 16.5 BB in level 3.

[/ QUOTE ]

You don't think AQs is better than an 11:9 favorite vs. the range raiser has?

[/ QUOTE ]

This is too thin of an edge to be risking your tournament life for in Level 3.