Line Check Please - Suited Connector Played Fast

[Double Eagle]

In my seemingly never-ending quest to open up my game I thought I'd post this hand for comment. This hand is from last nite's $109NL on Stars, shortly after the first break. I had just doubled up in the previous orbit with AA vs AK and have my typical tight/solid image. I know I'm out of position here, but the table had been playing very tightly pre-flop (not much re-raising going on) and I thought I would be able to extract a fair amount of chips if got called and hit my hand. Villain in this hand seemed to slightly loose/passive but otherwise straightforward (had not been bullying at all.) Is my line here ok, or is there some way I could have gotten more from what is obviously a very speculative hand? Other comments?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t150 (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

MP3 (t12175)
CO (t1575)
Button (t1765)
SB (t1445)
BB (t4153)
UTG (t1187)
Hero (t4735)
MP1 (t1060)
MP2 (t3400)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t450</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP3 calls t450, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>.

Flop: (t1125) 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t750</font>, MP3 calls t750.

Turn: (t2625) 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t1200</font>, MP3 folds.

Final Pot: t3825

[MLG]

check the turn.

[Rduke55]

I think you did it right.
You bet just under 1/2 pot there so how much cheaper would you go?
I'd think if he had anything worth calling he'd have called that bet.

[Double Eagle]

[ QUOTE ]
check the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Am I check calling or raising? What is my line with a check call / or if he checks behind and a diamond hits the river?

[Rduke55]

MLG, can you expand? I would have played this hand the same way and it sounds like you think it's costing chips.
My thinking was that my hand is fairly well disguised.
Wouldn't a check be suspicious?

[MLG]

I'm check calling and leading the river, hoping to confuse him into a call. If it checks behind I lead the river for 1/2 pot. If a diamond hits, meh, I'll probably bet about 1/2 pot anyway and then fold to a raise.

This line works well for me because I raise a lot preflop and lead at a lot of flops, thus many times people see my turn check as weak (since many times it is). I win lots of big pots by making a hand on the turn and bluff enducing.

[Potowame]

HOH recommends to make this play every so often so, not be peg as a ABC player. You have a deep enough stack that you can make plays like this to accumulate chips.

This is really idea when a guy getting tricky with AA or KK mini raises you or smooth calls, and will go to the felt on a flop that clobbers you.

The hand was played well, The board was very scary for a one paired hand. I think a check on the turn , call lead 1/3 pot. Overall it was a nice accumulation pot.

[MLG]

I think if a turn check is suspicious here, you aren't playing aggresively enough preflop/flop. You should be following through on the flop on the majority of hands you raise with. Thus in my mind the turn check just looks like your giving up on the hand after missing the flop.

[Cleveland Guy]

I also think your underbet here is fishy.

You led out for 3/4ths the pot after raising out of position.

Now you are slowing down, but still betting 40% of the pot on a Turn that could be a scare card.

not sure about your normal betting pattern - but against most players I'm hearing bells and whistles going off and telling me I'm being trapped.

That's a bet that's screaming "RAISE ME PLEASE".

If they player wants to be raised, I'm thinking I want out of the hand unless I have the Nuts.

Either check raise - or bet bigger.

[zaxx19]

Easy check for the turn ...give him a shot to bet at this.

[CardSharpCook]

[ QUOTE ]
check the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a difficult situation. You bet a good amount on the flop.... and he called.... Now the danger card comes and you are betting even more. If I'm that guy, I'm thinking, "alright, he's got AK, but no diamond." And I am folding any hand that loses to AK unless I have a good diamond.

Now, Lets say you have [censored]. KcQc. You make that bet on the flop, he calls. Then the turn diamond comes? What do you do? Chances are you say, "ok, he probably has an ace, but he may have been drawing to the diamonds.... perhaps i should check/fold." Now, something can be said for bluffing here, but the usual tourney line is to give up on this hand here.

Back to your hand. Your turn bet gives him no room to bluff. You are telling him, "if you go all-in, I WILL call." You are also making him feel very bad about his Ac9c.

I like two plays. 1) bet a small amount, maybe 450 on the turn - show this weakness and give him room to bluff/secure his hand. 2) check the turn, tell him, "I give up." He may very likely make a bet here, and if you are lucky, it will be a big bet. Now, you may wish to see a river non-diamond before raising/betting, or you may wish to push-raise on the turn.

My two cents,
CSC

[MLG]

This bet is exactly the bet I make with an A here. Its not that small at all. Pot sized bets on the turn after a bet and call on the flop are generally massively large bets.

[mostsmooth]

i think id checkraise the turn

[CardSharpCook]

[ QUOTE ]
I also think your underbet here is fishy.

You led out for 3/4ths the pot after raising out of position.

Now you are slowing down, but still betting 40% of the pot on a Turn that could be a scare card.

not sure about your normal betting pattern - but against most players I'm hearing bells and whistles going off and telling me I'm being trapped.

That's a bet that's screaming "RAISE ME PLEASE".

If they player wants to be raised, I'm thinking I want out of the hand unless I have the Nuts.

Either check raise - or bet bigger.

[/ QUOTE ]

What underbet? Our man has 1/4 of his chips committed on the flop, and then makes a bet for 1200 of his remaining 3500 chips. What does a bigger bet say besides, "I'll not back down from this pot." Which is, by the way, exactly what the 1200 chip bet says.

In my experience, the underbet (which I see as a viable option here if he bets 400-500) does not scare people as you think it might. Even though everyone knows "he acts meek, he's got a hand, he acts strong, he doesn't" they seem to forget this, or try to read too much into it. (he knows that I know that he knows...) The underbet has successfully induced many bluffs into my monster before.

CSC

[Double Eagle]

[ QUOTE ]
I think if a turn check is suspicious here, you aren't playing aggresively enough preflop/flop. You should be following through on the flop on the majority of hands you raise with. Thus in my mind the turn check just looks like your giving up on the hand after missing the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

I really wanted to take this line, but hated the idea of a check behind / river diamond. That being said I regretted making the bet the instant I made it and am sure I cost myself some chips, expecially considering I would play a board where I hit air with the same flop bet/turn check combo.

[woodguy]

[ QUOTE ]
I really wanted to take this line, but hated the idea of a check behind / river diamond.


[/ QUOTE ]

If your opponent has a big diamond that would mean there are 6 diamonds out, so there are 7 left.

So if you know the 4 board cards, your 2 and his 1 diamond, there are 45 cards left in the deck, 7 diamonds.

That means that IF he has a diamond, he has a 15.5% chance of hitting it.

For me that is a good gamble if means I can get another bet out of him.

Regards,
Woodguy

[Tim H]

Personally, I think you played it correctly.

No need to try and get "tricky" with someone who can put you in 3 times over.

If he calls this bet here at least you now have warning bells ringing to watch a paired board/diamond on river vs. him calling a &lt; 5% of his stack bet (350-450 chips) which he could call with anything and you have no info.

take the pot down and move on ... or check/push if you want the most chips possible

[SossMan]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I really wanted to take this line, but hated the idea of a check behind / river diamond.


[/ QUOTE ]

If your opponent has a big diamond that would mean there are 6 diamonds out, so there are 7 left.

So if you know the 4 board cards, your 2 and his 1 diamond, there are 45 cards left in the deck, 7 diamonds.

That means that IF he has a diamond, he has a 15.5% chance of hitting it.

For me that is a good gamble if means I can get another bet out of him.

Regards,
Woodguy

[/ QUOTE ]

and he has to check behind. He does this with a big diamond maybe 1/2 the time, so we are really only risking 7.5%.

[kuro]

I think you played it fine. Against most villains I'd check the turn and give the villain a chance to hang themselves, but your read is that the villain is loose passive. So betting the turn makes sense because villain is likely to call you down or chase his flush/straight draw and less likely to bluff.

[woodguy]

[ QUOTE ]
and he has to check behind. He does this with a big diamond maybe 1/2 the time, so we are really only risking 7.5%


[/ QUOTE ]

Good point.

I think online, its even less than that depending on the buyin.

Regards,
Woodguy