QTs on button, blinds getting up there..

[davehwm]

Tight table, maybe a little more FE in general than you could expect at an $11. Nothing on the individual players, I haven't played many hands and multi-tabling. The blinds will still be 100/200 when they come back around. Stacks listed are obviously before blinds are posted, so after posting SB (670) & BB (300). Your thoughts?

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t200 (7 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

MP1 (t830)
MP2 (t2135)
CO (t2385)
Hero (t810)
SB (t770)
BB (t500)
UTG (t570)

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif, T/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, Hero..?

[BradleyT]

[ QUOTE ]
Hero..?

[/ QUOTE ] makes a move before he's blinded out.

[Benholio]

Well, you don't really have any fold equity from the BB, but I don't see your FE going up on subsequent hands either. Your hand is good enough against the range of hands he will call with (read: almost anything), so go for it. If you win this hand (called or not), you are in much better position to start stealing more hands.

[therock]

Fold. You have almost no fold equity since the BB is short stacked and the SB may want to play this one as well. You will still have 800 chips which will give you some fold equity and you have just enough time to wait for a better hand - not much time, but just enough to make floding the better move.

[Voltron87]

[ QUOTE ]
Fold. You have almost no fold equity since the BB is short stacked and the SB may want to play this one as well. You will still have 800 chips which will give you some fold equity and you have just enough time to wait for a better hand - not much time, but just enough to make floding the better move.

[/ QUOTE ]

How is your fold equity going to increase?

[Benholio]

MP2 (t2135)
CO (t2385)
Hero (t810)
SB (t770)
BB (t500)
UTG (t570)
MP1 (t830)

Hero's fold equity isn't getting any better as the blinds move along, for sure. Add to that the fact that you might not even have a chance to be the first one in before you have to run through the blinds, since the 2 big-stacks are both directly before you. It is pretty lucky to even have a clear steal chance on the button here.

[therock]

How is your fold equity going to increase?

[/ QUOTE ]

It wont increase on the next hand, but after that you have a reasonable chance of getting MP1 (830), MP2 (2135), or CO (2385) to fold. Even is your FE does not increase, you may get a better hand or worse case, play from your blind.

[pooh74]

[ QUOTE ]

How is your fold equity going to increase?

[/ QUOTE ]

It wont increase on the next hand, but after that you have a reasonable chance of getting MP1 (830), MP2 (2135), or CO (2385) to fold. Even is your FE does not increase, you may get a better hand or worse case, play from your blind.

[/ QUOTE ]

And you think this is better than pushing here? BTW, I think ppl are using FE differently. Just because SB and BB are short here doesnt mean u dont have FE...and because CO and MP1 are larger stacks doesnt mean u have more FE (id say its the opposite in its essence). Yes, SB and BB might be desperate or even have slightly better holdings...but SB needs a very good hand to call here (doesnt want 3 way and also knows he has a few free hands coming up to catch) so in essence, youre banking on BB either 1. having a lesser holding or 2. having a similar holding but still folding bc he is tight.

Id push here...its time to move.

[Scuba Chuck]

My thoughts are, when BB is under 3xBB, there is a VERY high likelihood of getting called. How do you like your hand now?

If it meets your standards, QJs against a random hand, then push. If not...

There are other factors that make this situation (read: future hands) even more dismal...

QJs against random hand 60/40
QJs against top 2/3 hands 58.5/41.5

[pooh74]

[ QUOTE ]
My thoughts are, when BB is under 3xBB, there is a VERY high likelihood of getting called. How do you like your hand now?

If it meets your standards, QJs against a random hand, then push. If not...

There are other factors that make this situation (read: future hands) even more dismal...

QJs against random hand 60/40
QJs against top 2/3 hands 58.5/41.5

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, but QTs is da bomb

[curtains]

You must go allin here. Fold equity is important but pushing here is clearly +EV chipwise. When you are this short stacked with only 4x the BB, you probably won't find a more +EV situation.

[Eder]

I push here every time...you need their chips now...hopefully you get called with worse garbage...but at the 10$ table dont be suprised to see both fold

[lastchance]

Yeah, I just realized the guy only has 4x BB. You can't fold here. Push. At an $11, I think BB can fold. That's really good.

[jeffraider]

I think I'd push here with a lot less than QTs.

[stripsqueez]

i think fold equity is a crap concept

i dont like pushing on the button with a hand that doesnt want to be called - the secrets out that people push on the button with garbage hands

that said i probably push because what i've got is just a little more than garbage - if the blinds were about to go up i could find a fold

stripsqueez - chickenhawk

[curtains]

I don't think fold equity is a crap concept, merely overrated and overemphasized somewhat.

[microbet]

[ QUOTE ]
i think fold equity is a crap concept

i dont like pushing on the button with a hand that doesnt want to be called

[/ QUOTE ]

What do you like?

Getting dealt better cards than everyone else?

If fold equity is crap, how can you beat a table full of rocks?

[stripsqueez]

[ QUOTE ]
What do you like?

Getting dealt better cards than everyone else?

[/ QUOTE ]

you have self answered that question

[ QUOTE ]
If fold equity is crap, how can you beat a table full of rocks?

[/ QUOTE ]

this thread is full of a discussion about folding equity and not much else - i think the basis for deciding whether to push or fold in this spot is a process involving consideration of several factors and ascribing appropriate weight to each - most guys i usually play against in the 100's and 200's have no clue what folding equity is - they regularly make awful folds and calls so its not much use arguing that they should do X because your folding equity is Y

stripsqueez - chickenhawk