Dealer mess up

[TheCroShow]

format: 10 person sit n go, home game

short stack goes all in, gets 2 callers. callers check it all the way down..

now here is where it gets tricky. handicapped dealer burns two cards after the flop...3 of us say whoa whoa whoa dude, you just burned 2 cards, i witness the double burn as well. dealer keeps dealing (dealer is friend that was eliminated early)...short stack rivers his pair, 2 callers do not hit their AK and AQ. short stack triples up. i told them "no he is out, no way is he in." response? "no no it's a friendly game we'll give it to him." I argue back and forth and say [censored] it, whatever.

short stack goes on to rip out my heart twice. i raise 450 (75/150) preflop UTG with AJ, short stack reraises all in...dead man walking goes all in (about 900). dead man walking catches a pair of kings (all in with Kh8h) HFL he takes a monster.

then he goes on to rip me apart on another hand....i'm steaming the entire time because of the big [censored] up. dead man walking goes on to play for another 2 hours after that, i manage to build a decent stack....4 handed on the short stack i go all in with As9s...villain calls me with KhQd..he wins with a pair of kings. not my night man.

how would you handle this situation? dealer CONSTANTLY messes up and i would rather not let him deal ever again. we all take turns dealing as the button goes around..he offered to deal for us the rest of the night...like retards, we accept

[spicychili]

I have had dealers jack up the game in my home game as well. Once I see them as a screw up I dont let them deal after that night is over.

I will however correct dealer errors and refund the chips that were in play to the people who bet them (which is what should have happened in the above game, from my stand point anyway).

Not letting people deal does cause hard ship on you (and me) since you will be the one dealing most of the time. It has gotten to the point in my games that I usually end up dealing the whole night. I might take a break for a couple hands but it is usually 20 of me dealing to 2 from someone else.

This did cause problems in my game first off but I quickly over came the problems with running the game and playing poker at the same time.

[jojobinks]

you understand that cards are random, right? 2 or 5 burns after the flop will result in a different, but still random, turn card? you know that what he did was no big deal?

ever play blackjack? ever get mad b/c the guy in front of you, who "should've" stayed with that 16 to the dealer's 6, takes "your" ten that would have made your double-down? then you catch a 3 to your 10, and the dealer makes a hand?

the cards are random. encourage the dealers to act predictably, but know that as long as they aren't cheating, or making it easy for others to cheat, the cards they deal aren't their fault.

if you can't get used to that, deal all night yourself or hire someone to do it right.

[TheCroShow]

poker is random? wait, i didn't realize it was so similiar to blackjack..thank you for educating me.

[SamIAm]

All sarcasm aside, I agree with Jojo. The dealer gave you a different random card, and that was one of the cards that had you lose. Oh well. Then you admit that you were steaming for the rest of the night? Sounds like you lost a big hand and then let it get to you. That's understandable, but it's not the dealer's fault. Banning him from holding the deck ever again seems silly and spiteful.

Jojo's blackjack reference to angry gamblers sounds more and more appropriate. If the dealer delivers fair, random cards, it's a fair game. Even if your opponent happens to get lucky later.

Sorry you lost.
-Sam

[Eric H]

It's a misdeal. Refund the chips.

[smoore]

It's not a misdeal. It's a dealer error. I couldn't find any applicable rules but I think we can make a ruling based on action:

The flop could have easily been fixed before the action but for some reason it wasn't (not noticed perhaps?). Once that action happens the flop stays.

[jojobinks]

[ QUOTE ]
poker is random? wait, i didn't realize it was so similiar to blackjack..thank you for educating me.

[/ QUOTE ]

sorry. what i meant was, bad beat; that really sucks.

[Eric H]

Robert's Rules:
2. If the flop contains too many cards, it must be redealt. (This applies even if it were possible to know which card was the extra one.)

Two burn cards means one too many cards on the flop.

[Arsene Lupin III]

[ QUOTE ]
Robert's Rules:
2. If the flop contains too many cards, it must be redealt. (This applies even if it were possible to know which card was the extra one.)

Two burn cards means one too many cards on the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow. Since when is the burn part of the flop? The flop contained three cards. You're extending the definition of the flop to something that is not a part of it.

[Arsene Lupin III]

[ QUOTE ]
It's a misdeal. Refund the chips.

[/ QUOTE ]

Robert's def of misdeal:
[ QUOTE ]
1. The following circumstances cause a misdeal, provided attention is called to the error before two players have acted on their hands. (If two players have acted in turn, the deal must be played to conclusion, as explained in rule #2)

[/ QUOTE ] No.

(a) The first or second card of the hand has been dealt faceup or exposed through dealer error.


[/ QUOTE ] No.[ QUOTE ]

(b) Two or more cards have been exposed by the dealer.


[/ QUOTE ] No.[ QUOTE ]

(c) Two or more boxed cards (improperly faced cards) are found.


[/ QUOTE ] No.[ QUOTE ]

(d) Two or more extra cards have been dealt in the starting hands of a game.


[/ QUOTE ] No.[ QUOTE ]

(e) An incorrect number of cards has been dealt to a player, except the top card may be dealt if it goes to the player in proper sequence.


[/ QUOTE ] No.[ QUOTE ]

(f) Any card has been dealt out of the proper sequence (except an exposed card may be replaced by the burncard).


[/ QUOTE ] Discuss.[ QUOTE ]

(g) The button was out of position.


[/ QUOTE ] No.[ QUOTE ]

(h) The first card was dealt to the wrong position.


[/ QUOTE ] No.[ QUOTE ]

(i) Cards have been dealt to an empty seat or a player not entitled to a hand.


[/ QUOTE ] No.[ QUOTE ]

(j) A player has been dealt out who is entitled to a hand. This player must be present at the table or have posted a blind or ante.


[/ QUOTE ] No.

[Eric H]

[ QUOTE ]
format: dealer burns two cards after the flop...

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry, I misread the post. I thought it said two cards were burned before the flop.

[YTV]

Off topic: From reading your story it seems this game may have lasted upto 3 hours or more? Is that normal for your 10 person tourneys?

Ive never been in a 10 man tourney for more than 65 minutes in person or online.

[dachord]

The extra burn card should have been corrected, but wasn't. It sounds like it messed up the rest of your night and your play. Tough luck (no sarcasm meant).

[ QUOTE ]
Ive never been in a 10 man tourney for more than 65 minutes in person or online

[/ QUOTE ]

I've been in several 10 man tourneys (live) that have lasted from 1 to 4 hours, nothing uncommon there.

[Arsene Lupin III]

10 players in under 65 minutes?

Assuming you play 30 hands an hour, that's a bust just over every 3 hands.. wow.

I've played STTs on stars that lasted 180 hands and well over an hour

*********** # 1 **************
PokerStars Game #1349031286: Tournament #6059450, Hold'em No Limit - Level I (10/20) - 2005/03/13 - 09:43:21 (ET)

*********** # 183 **************
PokerStars Game #1349231766: Tournament #6059450, Hold'em No Limit - Level VIII (200/400) - 2005/03/13 - 10:55:20 (ET)

That's only level 8, too.

[TheCroShow]

most of our games run for about 2.5 hours or 3 max, but this one went to 4 due to a few new players "oh it's on me?" or babbling, etc.

so is there an official ruling on this? i tried to stop the game and correct it, but good ole dealer (guy eliminated early) purposely shuffled up the muck and burn piles together. sounds like everyone here is 50/50 on the re-deal. i doubt this will happen again, i'm just curious how it should have been handled.

[bubbafry]

[ QUOTE ]
It's a misdeal. Refund the chips.

[/ QUOTE ]

From Robert's rules of poker:

"Once action occurs, a misdeal can no longer be declared. The hand will be played to conclusion, and no money will be returned to any player whose hand is fouled. In button games, action is considered to occur when two players after the blinds have acted on their hands. "

You should never refund money once people have started betting (esp when 2 or more people are all-in).

[jojobinks]

i feel the need to once again mention that this hand should have stood as played. there is nothing to do, as it's not a misdeal. if you have house rules about burning, then you do something. if not, swallow it and move on. also, work on steam control. it'll save you money.

[bubbafry]

Agree with you jojo.

[gasgod]

[ QUOTE ]
i feel the need to once again mention that this hand should have stood as played. there is nothing to do, as it's not a misdeal. if you have house rules about burning, then you do something. if not, swallow it and move on. also, work on steam control. it'll save you money.

[/ QUOTE ]


I couldn't agree more. If a dealer irregularity occurs that does not favor one player over another, the deal should stand. At most, you might want to caution the dealer to follow house rules, or censure (or remove) him if he doeesn't, but altering the outcome of a fair random deal is contrary to common sense.


GG