fat_nutz
03-08-2005, 05:11 PM
A friend and I are have been trying to get a feel for some appropriate range of PTO stats for autorating & self-check purposes, in POT-LIMIT O8.
Problem is, after 60k hands, the HE tried-and-true stats don't seem to have the greatest correlation to a player's win rate in PLO8.
Take VPIP for example. My VPIP is around 33%, and I win at a rate of 5BB/hr on average, which I consider to be decent, but not optimal. Other winning players have VPIP as high as 55% (!) and as low as 15%.
Another example--PFR for me is right around 6%. Other successful players have PFR's up to as much as 20%, and as low as 0-1%. The only reliable tell I've gotten out of PTO so far is that for those 0-1% PFR folks, a PF raise is virtually always an AAxx hand.
When you look at VPIP, PFR, and win rate together, you begin to get a decent picture of the type of player. If you see a winning LAG or tight player, you maybe know that player is wild PF but generally makes good decisions post-flop. Likewise, if a LAG is a losing player, you know his PF action is weak, and if a tight player has a losing win rate, you maybe know you can bluff him in certain post-flop situations.
Anyway, to summarize, I'm a little frustrated at this point because it seems like PLO8 enables a much wider range of statistical playing styles to be winning/losing playing styles. I suspect that the true key is basically making good decisions post-flop, but I don't have a good feel for how to score this statistically using PTO.
So, I'm throwing it open and hoping to generate a good discussion here.
Again, please keep in mind that this is POT-LIMIT O8.
Problem is, after 60k hands, the HE tried-and-true stats don't seem to have the greatest correlation to a player's win rate in PLO8.
Take VPIP for example. My VPIP is around 33%, and I win at a rate of 5BB/hr on average, which I consider to be decent, but not optimal. Other winning players have VPIP as high as 55% (!) and as low as 15%.
Another example--PFR for me is right around 6%. Other successful players have PFR's up to as much as 20%, and as low as 0-1%. The only reliable tell I've gotten out of PTO so far is that for those 0-1% PFR folks, a PF raise is virtually always an AAxx hand.
When you look at VPIP, PFR, and win rate together, you begin to get a decent picture of the type of player. If you see a winning LAG or tight player, you maybe know that player is wild PF but generally makes good decisions post-flop. Likewise, if a LAG is a losing player, you know his PF action is weak, and if a tight player has a losing win rate, you maybe know you can bluff him in certain post-flop situations.
Anyway, to summarize, I'm a little frustrated at this point because it seems like PLO8 enables a much wider range of statistical playing styles to be winning/losing playing styles. I suspect that the true key is basically making good decisions post-flop, but I don't have a good feel for how to score this statistically using PTO.
So, I'm throwing it open and hoping to generate a good discussion here.
Again, please keep in mind that this is POT-LIMIT O8.