Played correctly? Typical "flush pump hand" [Archive]

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DontRaisePlz

03-05-2005, 11:03 PM

PokerStars 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+2 with J/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif. CO posts a blind of $1.
UTG calls, 1 fold, Hero calls, 2 folds, MP3 raises, 3 folds, BB calls, UTG calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (9.50 SB) A/images/graemlins/club.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 6/images/graemlins/club.gif (4 players)
BB checks, UTG bets, Hero calls, MP3 raises, BB calls, UTG calls, Hero 3-bets, MP3 calls, BB calls, UTG calls.

Turn: (10.75 BB) 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif (4 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, Hero checks, MP3 checks.

River: (10.75 BB) 2/images/graemlins/club.gif (4 players)
BB checks, UTG bets, Hero raises, MP3 folds, BB folds, UTG 3-bets, Hero caps, UTG calls.

Final Pot: 18.75 BB

No reads

shadow29

03-05-2005, 11:04 PM

You can probably bet the turn here.

elbuddha

03-06-2005, 02:10 AM

By betting the turn, are we hoping that either everyone folds or no one folds?

We barely have an equity edge against 3 opponents. If even one of them folds, we lose that. Everyone folding isn't going to happen. Not to mention that the board just paired, and MP3 is still to act.

Entity

03-06-2005, 02:12 AM

[ QUOTE ]
You can probably bet the turn here.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think I would.

Rob

Shillx

03-06-2005, 02:52 AM

Yeah the best time to go for this play is when someone bets into the PFR and you are stuck inbetween the PFR and the flop bettor. This is the perfect time to use the call-reraise line. Ni han.

Brad

OrianasDaad

03-06-2005, 03:09 AM

[ QUOTE ]
By betting the turn, are we hoping that either everyone folds or no one folds?

We barely have an equity edge against 3 opponents. If even one of them folds, we lose that. Everyone folding isn't going to happen. Not to mention that the board just paired, and MP3 is still to act.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you've got a four flush, then on the flop there's over a 33% (roughly, I don't recall the exact percent) chance to make your flush by the river. That's good against more than one opponent. The draw is further strengthened by a gutshot draw to the top straight.

Any hand that MP3 could have that beats a flush (AA, 66, A6), he would have capped the flop. I really doubt that he has a six in his hand.

mmbt0ne

03-06-2005, 05:32 AM

Does anyone else think the river cap is a little thin? With hero bolding the Q/images/graemlins/club.gifJ/images/graemlins/club.gif and the A/images/graemlins/club.gif on the board, I'm thinking that UTG will have K/images/graemlins/club.gifx/images/graemlins/club.gif here enough that calling the river 3-bet is the better play.

JoshuaD

03-06-2005, 05:39 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Does anyone else think the river cap is a little thin? With hero bolding the Q/images/graemlins/club.gifJ/images/graemlins/club.gif and the A/images/graemlins/club.gif on the board, I'm thinking that UTG will have K/images/graemlins/club.gifx/images/graemlins/club.gif here enough that calling the river 3-bet is the better play.

[/ QUOTE ]

You think villian's got K/images/graemlins/club.gifX/images/graemlins/club.gif more than 50% of the time?

I like the river cap.

mmbt0ne

03-06-2005, 05:42 AM

Given the action, yes I do. In fact, I think he has K/images/graemlins/club.gifT/images/graemlins/club.gif.

JoshuaD

03-06-2005, 05:49 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Given the action, yes I do. In fact, I think he has K/images/graemlins/club.gifT/images/graemlins/club.gif.

[/ QUOTE ]

Could just as easily be J/images/graemlins/club.gifT/images/graemlins/club.gif or 9/images/graemlins/club.gifT/images/graemlins/club.gif.

I think villian will flip up the K/images/graemlins/club.gif often here, but I think it's less than 50% of the time.

mmbt0ne

03-06-2005, 05:52 AM

Can't be J/images/graemlins/club.gifT/images/graemlins/club.gif since hero has the J. T/images/graemlins/club.gif9/images/graemlins/club.gif is the only other possible hand I can put villian on, and I don't think he has it enough to go capping.

hate

03-06-2005, 05:55 AM

I'll generally see people overplay flushes, and a 3-bet with a T-high isn't at all uncommon, even with KQJ possible. A cap here isn't unreasonable to me, although I think the K pops up enough to make it frustrating.

Shillx

03-06-2005, 05:57 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Does anyone else think the river cap is a little thin? With hero bolding the Q/images/graemlins/club.gifJ/images/graemlins/club.gif and the A/images/graemlins/club.gif on the board, I'm thinking that UTG will have K/images/graemlins/club.gifx/images/graemlins/club.gif here enough that calling the river 3-bet is the better play.

[/ QUOTE ]

Was this hand edited? I don't recall there being a pair on board when I 1st looked at it...

Brad

mmbt0ne

03-06-2005, 06:03 AM

<blockquote>En réponse à:<hr />
<blockquote>En réponse à:<hr />
Does anyone else think the river cap is a little thin? With hero bolding the Q/images/graemlins/club.gifJ/images/graemlins/club.gif and the A/images/graemlins/club.gif on the board, I'm thinking that UTG will have K/images/graemlins/club.gifx/images/graemlins/club.gif here enough that calling the river 3-bet is the better play.

[/ QUOTE ]

Was this hand edited? I don't recall there being a pair on board when I 1st looked at it...

Brad

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, that's another very scary part.

Shillx

03-06-2005, 06:05 AM

DeathDonkey

03-06-2005, 07:33 AM

You guys don't think it looks like UTG missed a turn checkraise? Right about the time he 3 bets the river I'm thinking "he whiffed on the turn!". I think he has TT more likely than a flush and I really don't think we should be capping the river.

-DeathDonkey

elbuddha

03-06-2005, 10:48 AM

[ QUOTE ]
If you've got a four flush, then on the flop there's over a 33% (roughly, I don't recall the exact percent) chance to make your flush by the river.

[/ QUOTE ]
I was questioning a turn bet, not the flop. Pumping the flop is of course correct. But on the turn our equity is ~25%, including K's for the straight.

JoshuaD

03-06-2005, 04:30 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Does anyone else think the river cap is a little thin? With hero bolding the Q/images/graemlins/club.gifJ/images/graemlins/club.gif and the A/images/graemlins/club.gif on the board, I'm thinking that UTG will have K/images/graemlins/club.gifx/images/graemlins/club.gif here enough that calling the river 3-bet is the better play.

[/ QUOTE ]

Was this hand edited? I don't recall there being a pair on board when I 1st looked at it...

Brad

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, that's another very scary part.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh wow, I didn't see that board pair either. In that case I like just calling the 3-bet.

But either way, I think you're giving too much credit to these players. they're playing 40% of their hands, which means they're playing nearly every suited hand out there. When they hit their flush they're not thinking "Oh man, I've got the first nuts, I can cap", or "oh wow, My hand is only the 6th nuts, I should probabaly just call this river raise".

They're more likely to be either the sort of player who 3-bets everytime on the river with a flush, or the sort of player who only calls a river raise with the absolute nuts.

DontRaisePlz

03-08-2005, 11:08 PM

Wow, I didnt know this one got so many replies while I was gone.

For anyone interested, UTG had:
 66