86s in the SB

[hate]

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Button calls, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (6 SB) 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(6 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB folds, UTG+2 calls, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, Button calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+2 raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button 3-bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero caps</font>, UTG+2 calls, Button calls.

River: (16.50 BB) 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG+2 calls, Button calls.

Final Pot: 19.50 BB

Turn cap was sort of an accident. UTG+2 was a fish, 30%VP$IP postflop aggro .8 or so. Button was a sLAP, but he'd lost a quantity of money over the past 10 hands, and it looked to me like he was perhaps tilting.

[JoshuaD]

I can't tell if you should cap or fold this turn. Any reads?

[JoshuaD]

The more I think about this, the more I think it's read specific.

If the 3-bettor on the turn is kinda laggy, I'm capping. If he's passive, I'm folding.

[Willluck]

folding is a bad play even if you are way behind, you have 15 outs to a straight or a flush, and a straight flush, and you have 1 out to a full house (1 because it's probably a split pot). so about a 35% pot equity. folding is a TERRIBLE PLAY! you have to at least call.

[jt1]

[ QUOTE ]
folding is a bad play even if you are way behind, you have 15 outs to a straight or a flush

[/ QUOTE ]

I wouldn't fold because I don't how to fold, but I'm not sure if it's a terrible or an excellent play. The 3 bet either indicates trips, a boat or a straight. I'd say that about half the time someone's got at least a straight which means that 6 of your outs are tainted or you're drawing dead.

[Willluck]

well if he does have a straight than i would say only 3 are tainted because you are either drawing to a split or a better hand.

[jt1]

[ QUOTE ]
well if he does have a straight than i would say only 3 are tainted because you are either drawing to a split or a better hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you can count 2 or 3 straight outs and 4 flush outs (I'm just guessing)3 outs to the boat and 2 to the st. flush. So 12 outs to call getting 6-1 odd direct with a possibility of capping which would make it 4-1. I guess you're okay to call, but I'm just guessing about the number of outs you have

[Etric]

have an open ended straight flush draw + any 8 for outs. I believe you have a pot equity edge. Cap for value.

[jt1]

[ QUOTE ]
have an open ended straight flush draw + any 8 for outs. I believe you have a pot equity edge. Cap for value.


[/ QUOTE ]

Some of those outs are tainted, so capping for value is not automatic.

[hate]

[ QUOTE ]
have an open ended straight flush draw + any 8 for outs. I believe you have a pot equity edge. Cap for value.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think here I can assume I've got perhaps 1 out for the flush, 2 outs for the straight flush, 2 outs for the 8, and 1 out for the 5. Outs calculations were wild for me, at the time I had fully counted my outs, which seems like a big mistake to me, but this hand is so complex outs-wise that I'm still sitting here befuddled. I now think the cap was a mistake, but a call was warranted.

[Willluck]

now come on friend...YOU HAVE MORE THAN 1 FLUSH OUT...please indulge me w/ any logic that says you only have 1 flush out.

[hate]

[ QUOTE ]
now come on friend...YOU HAVE MORE THAN 1 FLUSH OUT...please indulge me w/ any logic that says you only have 1 flush out.

[/ QUOTE ]

I just made that up by randomly assigning numbers between 1 and 9 to my outs list. pwned QED

[jt1]

[ QUOTE ]
I just made that up by randomly assigning numbers between 1 and 9 to my outs list. pwned QED


[/ QUOTE ]

ROFL

BTW, what does pwned QED stand for?

[hate]

pwned should be self-evident, and QED signifies that I've won the argument hands-down, refutation or response not necessary.

ie,

A dude tells me "urmom"
I respond with "no URmom pwned QED" and he can have no response other than capitulation.

Quod Erat Demonstratum, pwned = owned.

[jt1]

okay, a little latin never hurt anyone. why pwned is self evident beats me...

[Willluck]

[ QUOTE ]
ROFL

BTW, what does pwned QED stand for?

[/ QUOTE ] WTF does all of those stand for???

[JoshuaD]

[ QUOTE ]
okay, a little latin never hurt anyone. why pwned is self evident beats me...

[/ QUOTE ]


The 'p' key is awfully close to the 'o' key.

[jt1]

[ QUOTE ]
The 'p' key is awfully close to the 'o' key.

[/ QUOTE ]


so it is

way to bump up a dead post with such insightful analysis. /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[BottlesOf]

[ QUOTE ]
I can't tell if you should cap or fold this turn

[/ QUOTE ]

Umm, there's also another choice. Folding is awful. I'd just call.

[27offsooot]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I can't tell if you should cap or fold this turn

[/ QUOTE ]

Umm, there's also another choice. Folding is awful. I'd just call.

[/ QUOTE ]

Calling &gt; Raising &gt;&gt; Folding.

[jason_t]

[ QUOTE ]

BTW, what does pwned QED stand for?

[/ QUOTE ]

quod erat demonstratum = that which was to be proven.

It's latin, and mathematicians use it at the end of proofs.

[chief444]

[ QUOTE ]
Umm, there's also another choice. Folding is awful. I'd just call.


[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Calling &gt; Raising &gt;&gt; Folding.

[/ QUOTE ]

[hate]

Does anybody have any idea how to count outs, or do I simply just call here and suck it up on the river if I hit. Sorry to bump, but nobody's provided analysis besides "oh hey folding sux"