Weakish Top Pair--Basics Check.

[parappa]

I do this a lot. Should I fold the turn?

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with A/images/graemlins/club.gif, 9/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, Hero calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Button calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, BB checks.

Flop: (5.50 SB) K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
BB checks, MP1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, Button folds, BB folds, MP1 folds, MP2 calls.

Turn: (4.75 BB) T/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">MP2 bets</font>, Hero calls.

River: (6.75 BB) 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">MP2 bets</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 8.75 BB

[atnels]

I think your lines are either to fold or raise on the turn. If you get reraised, I think you can safely toss you hand and it has cost you the same as calling down. If he just calls your raise, I would still fold to a bet unimproved on the river. If he calls the turn and checks the river, don't check it through.

MP2 leading the turn is surprising, since if the T hit him if he had something like ATo or KTo I would expect a C/R.

I often fall into the same trap of calling down against an unknown player.

[parappa]

Rather a begging bump. Everyone agree with the one responder?

[sin808]

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Rather a begging bump. Everyone agree with the one responder?

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No. unless I missed something I'd play it the same. I'd rather see a cheap showdown than raising the turn and folding to a 3 bet. I may win at showdown, I won't win if I fold.

[jaxUp]

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Rather a begging bump. Everyone agree with the one responder?

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No. unless I missed something I'd play it the same. I'd rather see a cheap showdown than raising the turn and folding to a 3 bet. I may win at showdown, I won't win if I fold.

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[aron]

Should have played it just like that.
It's only a pair but it might very well be the best hand. However you might be up against something much worse, so why risking money for raises?
This gives you a cheap showdown.

-aron

[parappa]

Thanks for the replies! They were enlightening. Far from considering a turn a raise, I was wondering if I should've called it down or found a fold on the turn. Just one of those "too much hand to fold, too little hand to raise" things. Villain shows KT.

[@bsolute_luck]

since i know what he had now, i'd fold the turn /images/graemlins/grin.gif

do you have any reads on MP2? would he have raise PRF with AQ-T? or lead the flop on a draw? i'd put him on a pair most likely, so i think i'd have raised the turn and called down from there UI.

[OrianasDaad]

I think you'll find yourself behind a signifigant enough amount of the time here to raise the turn and fold to a 3-bet, or just fold. Depends on your read.

Key factor: Three cards T+ on the board. You are probably behind to two-pair (AT, KT but probably not AK) or QJ for the straight.

The correct play in this situation is completely read-dependant.

Some people might suggest raising here, since check-raising is the more logical play from someone that hit their hand.

[jaxUp]

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Key factor: Three cards T+ on the board. You are probably behind to two-pair (AT, KT but probably not AK) or QJ for the straight.



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Why would we automatically assume 2-pair??? With no reads, in party .5/1 I expect to see A4o or some such crap a lot of the time.

I don't like a turn raise here, with the intent to fold to a 3-bet. What do you stand to gain by putting in 2BB to fold, when you could just as easily put in 2BB and show down a possible winner?

[@bsolute_luck]

[ QUOTE ]
I think you'll find yourself behind a signifigant enough amount of the time here to raise the turn and fold to a 3-bet, or just fold. Depends on your read.

Key factor: Three cards T+ on the board. You are probably behind to two-pair (AT, KT but probably not AK) or QJ for the straight.

The correct play in this situation is completely read-dependant.

Some people might suggest raising here, since check-raising is the more logical play from someone that hit their hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

i don't understand how this is completely read dependent. the guy did a nice job betting on the K, as anyone probably would. and then got his 2nd card for 2 pair. that's just the way it goes, but i don't think he showed that hand at all through the play and, with no other scare cards on the table, betting on your A pair is the right thing.

[tiltaholic]

this reply may be slapped down as being weak-tight...

but from my memory, if the villian was a typical passive party-er, the stop and go and the turn means he can beat top pair. as the pot is smallish, folding the turn is not a bad play. the pot is about 6bb, and we are going to spend 2 more to see a showdown. against an unkown, i tend to call it down to enhance my read for the future. against a wacko, i call down.

[Nick Royale]

[ QUOTE ]
but from my memory, if the villian was a typical passive party-er, the stop and go and the turn means he can beat top pair. as the pot is smallish, folding the turn is not a bad play. the pot is about 6bb, and we are going to spend 2 more to see a showdown. against an unkown, i tend to call it down to enhance my read for the future. against a wacko, i call down.

[/ QUOTE ]
Why would he not c/r? I tend to call down suspect bets. Even if it comes from a party player (not knowing he should c/r.

[davelin]

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since i know what he had now, i'd fold the turn /images/graemlins/grin.gif

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Opponent could flip over KTo and you'd still be right to call the turn, do you see why?

[tiltaholic]

it's possible he would check raise. and yeah, i also tend to call down suspect bets. i suppose may be better to call down as a default line.

[Catt]

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since i know what he had now, i'd fold the turn /images/graemlins/grin.gif

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Opponent could flip over KTo and you'd still be right to call the turn, do you see why?

[/ QUOTE ]

Although this may sound like playful 2+2 banter, Davelin is being deadly serious . . . you should call the turn if your opponent shows you his KTo. Do you see why? (seriously)

If you see why, or figure out why after giving it a little thought, that knowledge will help your game even when your opponent is not kind enough to show you his cards . . .

[jskills]

The play here depends purely on reads. A loose passive likely has you, a maniac is probably playing a Kx or Ax this way.

If he's got AK-AJ, he'd likely raise preflop. AT could be an issue for you. Typically, you're going to see KT based on the turn action, if it's a passive player.

Again reads - call down a TAG, raise a LAG, and fold to any passive.

[@bsolute_luck]

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since i know what he had now, i'd fold the turn /images/graemlins/grin.gif

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Opponent could flip over KTo and you'd still be right to call the turn, do you see why?

[/ QUOTE ]

probably because i count 5 outs: 2 remaining As and 3 remaining 9s. the pot odds are big enough to play? that's what i would guess.

[davelin]

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since i know what he had now, i'd fold the turn /images/graemlins/grin.gif

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Opponent could flip over KTo and you'd still be right to call the turn, do you see why?

[/ QUOTE ]

probably because i count 5 outs: 2 remaining As and 3 remaining 9s. the pot odds are big enough to play? that's what i would guess.

[/ QUOTE ]

You have 3 other outs, I'll let you noodle out what they are.

[mmbt0ne]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">En réponse à:</font><hr />
You have 3 other outs, I'll let you noodle out what they are.

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I can't find them! They're hidden! /images/graemlins/wink.gif

OP: Nice hand.

[@bsolute_luck]

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since i know what he had now, i'd fold the turn /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Opponent could flip over KTo and you'd still be right to call the turn, do you see why?

[/ QUOTE ]

probably because i count 5 outs: 2 remaining As and 3 remaining 9s. the pot odds are big enough to play? that's what i would guess.

[/ QUOTE ]

You have 3 other outs, I'll let you noodle out what they are.

[/ QUOTE ]

HA! the 3 remaining 4s /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[davelin]

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since i know what he had now, i'd fold the turn /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Opponent could flip over KTo and you'd still be right to call the turn, do you see why?

[/ QUOTE ]

probably because i count 5 outs: 2 remaining As and 3 remaining 9s. the pot odds are big enough to play? that's what i would guess.

[/ QUOTE ]

You have 3 other outs, I'll let you noodle out what they are.

[/ QUOTE ]

HA! the 3 remaining 4s /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

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Gold star for you today /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[flopwell]

raise pf-anyone disagree?

After that, I probably play the same.

[parappa]

[ QUOTE ]
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since i know what he had now, i'd fold the turn /images/graemlins/grin.gif

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Opponent could flip over KTo and you'd still be right to call the turn, do you see why?

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for this! I didn't notice all the other outs. My eyes glaze over when I review that section of SSH, then I miss it the first time it comes up /images/graemlins/blush.gif , although the range of hands I had him on wasn't nearly that tight. I was more like "well, let's bet again. What's this? A raise? Call down I guess; wonder if it's right."