$215 - A7 in BB facing SB min raise

[curtains]

...your move


***** Hand History for Game 1643960136 *****
200/400 TOURNEYTEXASHTGAMETABLE (NL) (TOURNAMENT 9869789) - THU FEB 24 23:56:44 EST 2005
Table Table 17029 (Real Money) -- Seat 6 is the button
Total number of players : 5
Seat 2: nanonoko (3100)
Seat 6: onlynamerica (465)
Seat 8: socalcub (3575)
Seat 9: curtainz (1840)
Seat 10: ksenya (1020)
socalcub posts small blind (100)
curtainz posts big blind (200)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to curtainz [ 7d, Ac ]
ksenya folds.
nanonoko folds.
onlynamerica folds.
socalcub raises (300) to 400

[ZBTHorton]

Any reads at all?

How much stealing is going on?

Your not getting much equity for pushing and him folding.

I would flat call and push on any ace.

[Elektrik]

Given that SB only has 600 behind and is almost sure to call, I fold this. Yes, you're probably ahead, but it's almost certainly not by much and it would be terrible to get in there if you're behind. You still have 8BB after folding, so you have some room to breathe.

[ QUOTE ]
I would flat call and push on any ace.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is bad advice. You plan to call 1/9th of your stack and check the 83% of the time your ace doesn't come? A stop and go, ie calling and pushing any flop, would be much better here than this, as now your opponent will have a tough decision the 67% of the time the flop misses him (assuming he doesn't have a pair).

I'd put the order as

fold > push > stop n go > call and push any ace

although I can see how stop n go could be better than pushing.

[Seadood228]

Without reads I think it's tough.

I disagree with the previous post on both counts. Against a decent player I think you do have folding equity if you push. It's 1400+ out of his remaining 3100 chips to call. Losing this allin will drop him from chip leader to 3rd position.

Your opponent has a big stack + he's in the SB which takes away from some of the credibility of his raise (or just the opposite ) You are in a good but not great position to cash, but your position in relation to the big stacks suck + you have a desperate shortstack on your button, meaning you will have a tough time stealing from there.

If you are called, you are most certainly in a lot of trouble, but personally I think that the number of times you get a fold + your odds of sucking out + the table dynamics make it slightly profitable play to push. I might not be giving the BS enough credit, but he's in the perfect steal position with the perfect steal stack.

Of course this is in the absense of any player reads. And I would MUCH rather make that move with KQ or QJ.

Calling is another option, but I'm not quite sure what type of flops you are looking for. If you had more BBs in relation to the blinds, I'd prefer calling and trying to outplay my opponent from there.

[curtains]

You obviously have folding equity, anyone who says you don't is playing poker on a different planet.

[Elektrik]

That'll teach me to read the post carefully...For some reason I thought the guy with 1000 chips min raised.

In this case, a push definitely is a much more viable option, but again I think it's close, and read dependent. If big stack's been raising a lot, I'm much more inclined to come over the top here, but if he's been quite tight I'll generally fold.

[lastchance]

I fold instead of pushing.

[kdotsky]

If I'm in his situation and I wan't to steal I'd minraise because it's very tough for you to just call and he can still safely fold if you push. If I had a big ace I'd rather just push on you than min-raise. If I had a monster I may call, min-raise, or push depending. But he's not me, and I'm not a $215 player /images/graemlins/smile.gif So I think you can push and have some decent folding equity.

[ChrisV]

Push. I'd also rather call than fold.

[ZeeJustin]

I push, however, I do think it's very close between push and call (I think a fold is pretty terrible).

[curtains]

In case anyone wonders I pushed and he called with ATo, and I sucked out on him /images/graemlins/smile.gif

I feel like I might not have played the same if I had A6 or A5 instead of A7.

[rohjoh]

Cutains,

If socal pushes all in, instead of min raise, do you lay it down? I think he is the one who misplayed this hand. Why min raise with A10, just asking for you to push...

[curtains]

Yes I would definitely fold if he pushed.

[stupidsucker]

[ QUOTE ]
Cutains,

If socal pushes all in, instead of min raise, do you lay it down? I think he is the one who misplayed this hand. Why min raise with A10, just asking for you to push...

[/ QUOTE ]

bingo IMO.

Only way I dont push here, is if this stack has never min raised before and always pushes aggressivly.

bottom line, his minraise was terrible, and his call all in was even worse. Your push was fine, and you had a ton of FE.

[microbet]

For people who say push ...

What do you do for A2o - A6o?

With a worse kicker does it become more of a push/fold decision rather than a push/call?

[stupidsucker]

[ QUOTE ]
For people who say push ...

What do you do for A2o - A6o?

With a worse kicker does it become more of a push/fold decision rather than a push/call?

[/ QUOTE ]

Good question

I honestly dont know where the cut off is. I cringe at A2o, and maybe the push is way too aggressive all together, but if it is, then we have found a leak in my game for sure.

[curtains]

I wouldn't push with A2o for sure. Wouldn't with A4o either.

[mikey checks]

Depending on how the raising has been at this Level he may be looking for you to push on top with Any 2...it's very close tho as he could be holding K10 QJ etc.

[imported_bingobazza]

[ QUOTE ]


Why min raise with A10, just asking for you to push...

[/ QUOTE ]

Cos he figures you are likely to push with a marginal hand like A7 and will need to get lucky to win when he calls. I think his bet is crying out for a push from you - he has given you the FE hoping you will use it and he has you well covered. I think he sucker punched you here.

[stupidsucker]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


Why min raise with A10, just asking for you to push...

[/ QUOTE ]

Cos he figures you are likely to push with a marginal hand like A7 and will need to get lucky to win when he calls. I think his bet is crying out for a push from you - he has given you the FE hoping you will use it and he has you well covered. I think he sucker punched you here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thinking like this will get you killed at the lower limits. I cant say how it would work above the 50s. The ONLY hands you want in are KT-2T, and A9-A2. everything else is not worth the risk.

[imported_bingobazza]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


Why min raise with A10, just asking for you to push...

[/ QUOTE ]

Cos he figures you are likely to push with a marginal hand like A7 and will need to get lucky to win when he calls. I think his bet is crying out for a push from you - he has given you the FE hoping you will use it and he has you well covered. I think he sucker punched you here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thinking like this will get you killed at the lower limits. I cant say how it would work above the 50s. The ONLY hands you want in are KT-2T, and A9-A2. everything else is not worth the risk.

[/ QUOTE ]

It will also get you killed at the higher limits. I totally agree with you stupid sucker, I push with A10 here, but I will prob fold A7 to be honest unless he has been doing this a lot, in which case I push, but Im always suspicious of a min rasie here from someone who normally pushes, maybe Im just a little weak....

[Unarmed]

[ QUOTE ]

I wouldn't push with A2o for sure. Wouldn't with A4o either.

[/ QUOTE ]

No kidding, that was my worst leak - pushing with weak aces. A2o is a horrid push hand. If villain will call with A7 up, all suited aces, all suited broadway, and all pairs, A2o is about equal to Q6o and 93s..yummy.

[kdotsky]

Okay I'm trying to decide if opponent's play is good here. Do you really think getting curtains to push and calling is good? You're not often a big favorite, it's not a great 'trap'. Curtains could have KQ, K9, etc, and he looses enough of the time that it's not worth it.

If he really wanted Curtains to push, it was a very tricky, high-level play. Or was it just poor? If I was him I think just pushing with AT is better. If getting Curtains to push, and calling his push is worth it, and he did this on purpose, then I'm staying away from $200's for a while. But I don't think this is the case.

[curtains]

You are all giving this guy (my opponent) WAYYY too much credit.

[rohjoh]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


Why min raise with A10, just asking for you to push...

[/ QUOTE ]

Cos he figures you are likely to push with a marginal hand like A7 and will need to get lucky to win when he calls. I think his bet is crying out for a push from you - he has given you the FE hoping you will use it and he has you well covered. I think he sucker punched you here.

[/ QUOTE ]

But A10 is not really a hand you want to be calling an all in here with. If Curtainz comes back over the top, A10 is only a 55 to 45 favorite to hands like KQ and KJ, which knowing how cutainz plays are at the lower range of the hands that he is going to be pushing here. Why not just pick up the blinds, and move on?

[kdotsky]

No I'm not I think we agree. The other guy was saying he did this on purpose ("sucker punched you"), and I don't think he did. I was saying (or asking whether) his play was bad and he should have pushed.

[curtains]

Yeah I didn't really mean everyone /images/graemlins/smile.gif I just mean everyone that thinks he has some devious strategy for min raising ATo to encourage me to go allin with a weaker ace.

[imported_bingobazza]

[ QUOTE ]
Okay I'm trying to decide if opponent's play is good here. Do you really think getting curtains to push and calling is good? You're not often a big favorite, it's not a great 'trap'. Curtains could have KQ, K9, etc, and he looses enough of the time that it's not worth it.

If he really wanted Curtains to push, it was a very tricky, high-level play. Or was it just poor? If I was him I think just pushing with AT is better. If getting Curtains to push, and calling his push is worth it, and he did this on purpose, then I'm staying away from $200's for a while. But I don't think this is the case.

[/ QUOTE ]

I dont think it was a GOOD move by him, but I do think its a high level tricky play, but applied incorrectly with cards that are too weak to justify it.

Lets talk about his INTENTION here, as this is the key to understanding his play IMO. Did he intend to call a push....obviously he did, as he called (unless he doesnt ask himself 'what do I do if Im rerasied here?'...quite possible, maybe im giving him too much credit) Therefore he mini raised with the intention of calling a push. I dont understand why this isnt obvious. What does this tell you about what HE (i.e. NOT YOU!!!!) thinks about his hand, mistakenly or not. So when he mini raised, he has already decided to call a push, so why not just push himself? Right?

Perhaps its to get a push from an opponent who wont call a push? I dunno.

Having said all that, the A7 push wasnt terrible here.

Still a pretty bad play by him if he is trapping...but only because the trap is too weak.

As for giving him too much credit, perhaps I am, but have you thought that maybe you're not giving him enough? After all, he got all the chips in the middle preflop as a huge favourite against a hand that you would have folded to a push. /images/graemlins/cool.gif



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