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avidguru
09-09-2002, 12:01 PM
PP, .50/1, typical full table. Cut-off is a little tighter than average LL player (which basically means he's not insane).

I raise with JJ UTG. Everyone folds except CO, who calls.

2.75 BB, 2 players

Flop is 2s 9h 6d. I bet, figuring to be best here. CO calls.

3.75 BB, 2 players

Turn is Ace of diamonds. I bet looking for info, planning to fold if raised. CO just calls.

5.5 BB, 2 players

River is the Ten of Hearts. No flush, straight possible with 78. I bet, again looking for info. CO calls.

My thoughts throughout this hand were that I needed to give this guy every reason to fold, and if I encountered resistance once the Ace came, I would get the heck out of Dodge. Perhaps a check-raise on the flop would have been more powerful, but I had no reason to believe that he would bet. I don't like a check-raise on the turn, because a bet from him could very well be an ace.

The CO? He had AcQc. Was he fearing AK or AA? I would have raised on the turn or river in his shoes. With no raise to let me know what he had, did I do the right thing?

Casey
09-09-2002, 01:13 PM
I think you played it fine, except possibly the bet on the river, but its close, if this guy will call with any part of the flop then you bet. If the call on the turn screams ace, check. I spend most of my time on paradise betting everyone elses hand so I knopw how frustrating it can be.

Uston
09-09-2002, 01:16 PM
Let's say your opponent puts you on the following range of hands (this read would be supported by the fact that you bet on every street)...
AA-99, AK, AQ, AJ, ATs.
Can you see how much he stands to lose with a raise on the river, especially if you'd fold KK, QQ, and JJ half the time, and re-raise with AA, TT, 99, ATs every time and AK half the time (I'm also assuming you'd never fold AQ and never fold or re-raise with AJ and that he'd call half the times you re-raised)? Does anyone think these assumptions are fallacious?

A raise is worth -.20BB by my count.

Also, unless you'd check-fold the river the vast majority of times you were beaten, he played the turn as though he could read both your mind and your cards.

Clarkmeister
09-09-2002, 01:38 PM
Seems to me he played it perfectly.

davidross
09-09-2002, 02:00 PM
There is no right answer here. In hindsight..No you did not do the right thing, you should have check-folded the turn, but you couldn't know that. So you did what a lot of us do, keep betting until you meet some aggression. A lot of times it works. If he had K9 or AT he will pay you off.

His play was somewhat timid, but not necessarily wrong. AQs is one hand that I will consider cold-calling a raise with. calling the flop bet is ok too I think. Now his A hits (He'd probably prefer a Q) and you keep betting. If he raises and you have AK he's going to lose 2 extra bets so he lets you bet it for him. Not a bad play.

The only chance you have to improve on this is to have a better read on your opponent. Keep notes on how they play, and you'll have a better idea of whether they will stay with a worse hand. You did describe him as somewhat tight, so is it likely he doesn't have an A?

AceHigh
09-09-2002, 02:54 PM
I think checking, planning to call a bet on the river might be the better play.

avidguru
09-09-2002, 03:59 PM
Actually, I didn't say he was tight, I just said he was tighter than the usual LL PP player - I figured if he had an ace, I'd see a raise somewhere. If I were him, I'd want to raise the turn to see how serious my opponent was. But that's me and not him. I think I lost the minimum here, so I'm not too upset - just trying to get some different ideas on how to play this sort of situation. I definitely need to work on hand reading while playing the hand - a lot of my reasoning takes longer than I have to make a decision.

Thanks everyone

avidguru
09-09-2002, 04:00 PM

Dynasty
09-09-2002, 06:24 PM
Seems to me he played it perfectly.

It seems to me that he played it horribly. Specifically, he shouldn't be calling an EP raise with AQs in a pot which looks to be 3-handed at best and probably heads-up. The suited nature of the hand is negligible in these situations. Then, he made a call on the flop with what is probably a dominated hand with absolutely no draw. He should have folded again.

Dynasty
09-09-2002, 06:28 PM
You are leaving too many bets on the table by not betting on later streets simply because an overcard to your big pocket pair comes on the turn or river.

bernie
09-09-2002, 11:31 PM
he saved you chips....i like when players play a hand, so that when they hit it, they can then just call it down...weak asses...if i were him i wouldve raised the river...

your turn bet, after he calls, im checking the river here....what would he call this turn with? an under pair? he's have raised the flop. or shouldve....did he turn a flush draw? doubt it.
it may also induce a bluff on the end, while saving you a bet if youd have been raised...

you played it fine...

dont worry about it...
next hand...

b

Uston
09-10-2002, 10:16 AM
if i were him i wouldve raised the river...

And if you were against a decent player, you'd have made a bad play.

bernie
09-10-2002, 12:09 PM
not really. a decent player doesnt mean he has you beat. he doesnt automatically raise with only AK AA or anything that beats you. the guys AQ is very likely good. so what if you dont get to show the hand if he folds.

im not a fan of hitting a hand just to check/call all the way to showdown. HU you can, but id still like to throw a raise at least on the end. if i read that he has me beat, why would i go that far anyway?

this reminds me of the guys who play Axos so they can hit the A, then call it down. they say "i wasnt sure if my kicker was good..." well, if your going to play it that weak, why play it? i saw someone do this and they tripped on the flop....checked the whole way, and noone was betting....why play it?

anyways...

b