FULL TIME SNG's

[johnny005]

Hi guys I've been playing these sng's for about a year total, just started really getting into them in the last few months though.. I was just wondering if there is anyone here who is making a good living playing these things.... I would love to quit my job and play these full time.... just not sure if its worth it.. I would need to make at lease $350-$400 a week on average.Can it be done at the $20's 4 tabling? If it cant be done at this level maybe the 33'3?

I'm just looking for some insight from people who are playing 300+ sng's per month, Really anyone msg me and tell me what you think?

SHOULD I DO THIS????
Or am I just DREAMING? /images/graemlins/confused.gif

FLAME ME IF YOU WANT TO

[Mr_J]

"I would need to make at lease $350-$400 a week on average."

Yep. VERY reasonable at the $33s or $22s.

"I would love to quit my job and play these full time"

I might not be experienced in poker, but I've been 'gambling' for a living for 3 years. It really is a good idea to keep working until going to work actually starts to cost you money.

You should have a good results over a statistically significant sample, make quite a bit more than you think you will need, and have at least a few months (preferably 6-12 months) expenses saved in advance.

[skipperbob]

I have no idea what you do for a living, but obviously you don't like it....So, you'd rather sit in a darkened room, by yourself, do something that used to be entertainment but is now "work", allow your social skills (whatever they are) to atrophy, completely piss-off all of your significant others, and to add insult to injury, go broke /images/graemlins/confused.gif GOOD LUCK

[zaphod]

[ QUOTE ]


I have no idea what you do for a living, but obviously you don't like it....So, you'd rather sit in a darkened room, by yourself, do something that used to be entertainment but is now "work", allow your social skills (whatever they are) to atrophy, completely piss-off all of your significant others, and to add insult to injury, go broke GOOD LUCK



[/ QUOTE ]

What's the catch?

[johnny005]

I understand where your coming from skipperbob, But the way I look at it is, I go to a job I hate for 8 hours a day 5 days a week monday-friday right, If i was making lets say on average $6 dollars per tourney right, I could make the same or more then I'm making now by playing about 20 a day.... 4 tabling thats about 5 hours right.
I would also be doing something I enjoy.. Now maybe I might not enjoy it when im doing it everyday for 5 hours.. But I dont enjoy what I'm doing now for 8 hours a day /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Hmmm sounds like im trying to convince myself to do this.

[Scuba Chuck]

My opinion on this topic is pretty simple. If you have to ask, then you shouldn't do it. Those who know that it will work, are not asking, "hey, do you think I can make xxxx.... playing SnGs full time?"

If you're making $3,000 a month playing SnGs consistently for the last 6 months, I doubt you'd be asking this forum if it's the right idea, you'd already know. And, since this is the type of confidence you'd need to know for sure, if quitting is appropriate, then you now know what your next 6 month goal is.

[eastbay]

[ QUOTE ]
My opinion on this topic is pretty simple. If you have to ask, then you shouldn't do it. Those who know that it will work, are not asking, "hey, do you think I can make xxxx.... playing SnGs full time?"

If you're making $3,000 a month playing SnGs consistently for the last 6 months, I doubt you'd be asking this forum if it's the right idea, you'd already know. And, since this is the type of confidence you'd need to know for sure, if quitting is appropriate, then you now know what your next 6 month goal is.

[/ QUOTE ]

Very well said, Scuba. I agree completely.

eastbay

[byronkincaid]

I seem to remember a Mr J on winneronline a few years ago, back in the days when you could make good money bonus hunting, was that you?

[Mr_J]

Yep. First half of 2003.

Those were the days. $100+ an hour no problem.

[spentrent]

[ QUOTE ]
...If i was making lets say on average $6 dollars per tourney right...

[/ QUOTE ]

Here's the catch: that $6 average may not manifest itself for a month or two. Don't fool yourself into thinking every game you play today is worth another 6 bucks. Before you dive in you need some emergency cash stored away or you might be very very unhappy after your first week.

[rachelwxm]

$400 a week is pretty doable even you play $10+1. 1k per week should be achievable if you play full time.

Having said that I don't think I will live well with that. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[johnny005]

I understand that $400 a week isn't very much, I was just saying thats what I would need to get by. Anything less than that I would end up maxing out my visa /images/graemlins/shocked.gif

[ QUOTE ]
My opinion on this topic is pretty simple. If you have to ask, then you shouldn't do it. Those who know that it will work, are not asking, "hey, do you think I can make xxxx.... playing SnGs full time?"

If you're making $3,000 a month playing SnGs consistently for the last 6 months, I doubt you'd be asking this forum if it's the right idea, you'd already know. And, since this is the type of confidence you'd need to know for sure, if quitting is appropriate, then you now know what your next 6 month goal is.


[/ QUOTE ]
I think this is the best advice anyone could have given me.
Thanks scuba. Scince I started using the super spreadsheet I've played 93 10+1's and my ITM=36.6% ROI=4.6%:( , for 20's I've played 19 ITM=57.9% ROI=101% overall my return on investment is 32.5% after 1440 invested. I think I'm going to try and play about 150-200 sngs' a month for the next few months and see how I'm doing after that and then make my decision.
Once I have a bankroll of say 10,000+ and I can dip in for emergencies I wont have to worry about much... and hey if I cant get my bankroll that high I guess I'll have to find a real job /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

No one has told me If they do this as there only source of income or if it is just a hobbie ?

[Mr_J]

I guess this is my job now (been playing for 1.5 months lol). My sports bankroll took a big hit so while that's slowly replenishing itself I'm hoping to make some money off poker.

[rachelwxm]

[ QUOTE ]
I understand that $400 a week isn't very much, I was just saying thats what I would need to get by. Anything less than that I would end up maxing out my visa /images/graemlins/shocked.gif

[ QUOTE ]
My opinion on this topic is pretty simple. If you have to ask, then you shouldn't do it. Those who know that it will work, are not asking, "hey, do you think I can make xxxx.... playing SnGs full time?"

If you're making $3,000 a month playing SnGs consistently for the last 6 months, I doubt you'd be asking this forum if it's the right idea, you'd already know. And, since this is the type of confidence you'd need to know for sure, if quitting is appropriate, then you now know what your next 6 month goal is.


[/ QUOTE ]
I think this is the best advice anyone could have given me.
Thanks scuba. Scince I started using the super spreadsheet I've played 93 10+1's and my ITM=36.6% ROI=4.6%:( , for 20's I've played 19 ITM=57.9% ROI=101% overall my return on investment is 32.5% after 1440 invested. I think I'm going to try and play about 150-200 sngs' a month for the next few months and see how I'm doing after that and then make my decision.
Once I have a bankroll of say 10,000+ and I can dip in for emergencies I wont have to worry about much... and hey if I cant get my bankroll that high I guess I'll have to find a real job /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

No one has told me If they do this as there only source of income or if it is just a hobbie ?

[/ QUOTE ]

Scuba Chuck did make a very good point as lots of 2+2ers still keep their day jobs while making decent money playing poker. There are 3 stages I see:

stage 1. you start to making money in poker and wondering if you should quit job.

stage 2. you are comfortably making some money and still keep day job for security purpose. After all the game during day is not that attractive.

stage 3. at one point you start to think your daily job costs you money because your hourly rate from poker is much much higher than your regular job.

[lacky]

I play poker full time, and play only sng's sometimes. Anything get's boring, so I move around between limit, NL and sng's with some multies now and then. For example, last year I played mostly sng's Jan to April, than played mostly limit, full and 6 max, till December. Last couple months has been sng's again almost entirely. This last week I've started playing a few multies everyday.

Basically if your good at poker you can make money whatever the game.

Steve

[mshalen]

If you really want to try then good luck. I play as a hobby and have been averaging about $750/month. This is playing a few hours a day here and there with a mix of SNGs and MTT. I can't imagine making enough to quit my job - but I have a house, kids and a career. If I was 21... that is a different story.

[sofere]

If your 21 I think its even more reason not to play full time. If you quit working, you lose valuable work experience that can help you get a better higher paying job later.

Imagine this...after 2 years of playing professionally, you decide poker is boring, or you move up in limits before your ready and lose a big chunk of $$$, or for whatever reason you decide you don't want to play any more. How are you going to explain that huge gap in between jobs. Most places when looking for entry level candidates would not consider poker an attractive addition to your work experience section of your resume.

The only time I would consider it (unless your absolutely sure you have a better future in poker than in a real job) is as an alternative to a part time job that would add nothing to a long term career. (i.e. you may want to play poker instead of working at McDonalds, but shouldn't give up a paying internship).

[Phoenix1010]

I do it for a living. It's quite possible to make upwards of 500 dollars a week playing the 20's ON AVERAGE, provided that you:
a. Are a winning player who can sustain a 20%+ ROI, while 4 tabling.
b. Are responsible enough to play 20-25 tourneys per day, without taking more than two days off per week.
c. Have a large enough bankroll to handle the inevitable swings that come with playing poker for a living. For the 20's I think $700 is sufficient although $1,000 would be ideal.
d. Have a reliable safety net in place to fall back on, in case the poker thing doesn't work out. You have to have some kind of financial back up, preferrably a few months of living expenses in the bank.
e. Are mature enough to deal with the psychological strain of variance. There is no steady paycheck, there will be downswings. You will have weeks where you lose money. If you allow bad beats to lead to bad play on a regular basis, you may not go broke, but you will not make enough money to live by. Focus is the absolute key.

As for whether or not you should quit your job... only you can answer that. I'd say that if you really don't like your job, and you stand to make more money playing poker, then it's worth considering. But I advise you to take it slowly. Try working part time while playing poker to start out, and see if it works. Above all, make sure you're financially secure before making the jump. Hope this helps.

Regards,
Steve

[bball904]

[ QUOTE ]
No one has told me If they do this as there only source of income or if it is just a hobbie ?

[/ QUOTE ]

This is my only source of income. I play 90% sng's and mix in some low limit for bonus whoring and as a diversion. At 20% ROI in the 55's, I make $11 per tourney or roughly $44/hr. That is about the hourly wage I gave up last summer to start this, so it can surely be done. My only problem of late has been that I'm not getting 40 hours a week in because it does wear you down playing just sng after sng.

[Scuba Chuck]

If your 21 I think its even more reason not to play full time. If you quit working, you lose valuable work experience that can help you get a better higher paying job later

I have made similar comments to the FourAces a while back. Frankly, your age should play a large part in this decision. If you're 55 and hoping to retire early, and can live off of $2000 a month, then great go for it. But if you're 28, I can't image being comfortable making a major career change to professional poker player without being able to make at least $10,000 a month. Life is expensive, and you're giving up valuable time to develop skills in a real job. Another interesting point is that for those who do have those skills to make that much per month, probably have the capabilities and aptitudes necessary to earn a higher income paying career. I think they go hand in hand.

My point is, if you don't like your job, find a new one. If you're looking for income through your poker hobby (like me) find a new job that will accomodate optimum poker playing hours.

[UMTerp]

I'm 27, single, an engineer by day, and play about 20 hours a week 8-tabling online, the vast majority of which is SNGs. For the past five months now, by poker income has exceeded my "real" income, and in three of the five, it's more than tripled it.

And I'm still not seriously considering quitting my job.

I guess the biggest reason is security and benefits, but the social implications also have a lot to do with it. I'm about 90% sure I could make a comfortable living playing poker, but I doubt I'll ever find out unless I luck into a major (i.e. 6-figure) multi-table tournament score or something.

To put it bluntly, it's laughable to me that someone would quit a job because he "might" make $300 a week playing poker. Will you be happy making $300/week three years from now? Don't you want to work towards a career goal?

[jaydoggie]

This is retarded, I've been working at blockbuster making $6.25/hr, weird ass hours never enough to pay the bills. Im 22, I have a GED no further eduaction. My average check for a 2 week pay period is about $300.

I finally decided to make the jump to $10 sngs this week, Ive been playing $5+.5 for way too long but I was afaird to make a jump and risk going bust because I may never be able to reload.

Anyhow the games arent that much tougher, I had a 38% ROI at 5+.5, and after my first 100 Im showing a 28% ROI at the $10 3 tabling, which is WAY more than im making standing around checking in DVDs all day.

It really makes me want to quit, but I fear burnout or being one of the "bad run" posters and being homeless. Although when Im running good it's definately -EV to step away and go to work :-/

I guess Im just posting because I feel this is the type of question a person in my line of work should be thinking to himself. I think if I had a reasonably good job the answer would be make time to play on the side but trust the job security, atleast in my humble opinion.

[lorinda]

Try to live off the $150 a week, build your roll while living off that and see how things go.

Look at the job as a freeroll, it's no fun playing low limits and watching 95% of your profits vanish each week.

Lori

[UMTerp]

Who can live off of $150 a week? Do you live in a box?

[lorinda]

I lived off far less than that for a very long time.

Lori

[lorinda]

Okay, it was around that and for a couple of years now I think about it. It seemed a very long time.

Lori

[jaydoggie]

my average check is 300$ for 2 weeks, which is roughly 150 a week. its not easy. i live in davenport, iowa.

[lorinda]

My thoughts would be as follows:

Work out what you need as a minimum and stick to it for longer than you would like, withdrawing the minimum.

When your roll is big enough, you could step up which would probably only result in a small gain, but ALL the gain is yours rather than paying to survive.

When you reach that point, things start to change fast as you can still add to your roll and gradually increase your standard of living.

Lori

[lorinda]

Oh, and get a neteller account and learn to play micro limits.

Take advantage of each and every bonus you can find reading the internet forum, even if you don't take the maximum.

Lori

[UMTerp]

[ QUOTE ]
I lived off far less than that for a very long time.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's insane. I guess I'm used to the prices around DC. You'd seriously be hard-pressed to pay rent for $150/week here.

[lorinda]

I rented a room for around $70/week in someone's house and ate a lot of pasta.

Lori

[rachelwxm]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I lived off far less than that for a very long time.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's insane. I guess I'm used to the prices around DC. You'd seriously be hard-pressed to pay rent for $150/week here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not to brag, but $400 a week is not enough for my rent and I am not living in the City. Maybe I am spoiled.

[TheAmp]

johnny,
three things you might want to think about:
1) Life is flexible, you dont commit to poker or a regular job for too long anyway.
2) do what you feel. take resonable risks not only on the poker table.
3) getting rivered hurts more when poker is your only job.

best of luck to you....

[johnny005]

I live in canada I pull in about 400 a week so about $320 american. I'm 21 years old, Own my own house already. morgage is only about 400 a month so I'm getting by ok, I feel like i can make more playing sng's... plus the exchange makes it even better when I win /images/graemlins/smile.gif, hopefully it gets better too /images/graemlins/shocked.gif

[swarm]

The 2 main reasons you shouldn't are:

1) You have a house and not any backup funds to make house payments if you hit a bad run, even if you are a winning poker player. Everyone hits bad stretches.

2) Your 21, you should be searching jobs that accommodate your poker playing until you build up a realistic stash to make such a dangerous move.

On the plus side you do live in canada so your medical is covered.

I think you should set up a 6 - 12 month goal of how much money you need to build (not bankroll, savings!) up playing poker part time so that your house payments are covered for at least a year.

If you were to go bust, miss a house payment our two, you could find your credit and life so messed up before you know what's what. Now, do you think you can play poker comfortably full time knowing that your success on the table has those ramnifications in the balance.

If poker and SNG's are truly going to become a long term possible outlet for you to make money you have plenty of time. What's the rush?

[ArturiusX]

One thing I think you should consider is maybe getting some higher education, and playing poker to support that.

You hate your job. Well, I'd hate to break it to you, but unless your on the cutting edge of poker professionalism, you'll probably hate poker after 2 years too.

So here's a good idea; find something you'd love to do (maybe become a computer programmer, for example), and sign up at whatever college or take night school, or whatever. Now, support yourself through school using poker. Once you get sick of poker, you'll have a nice diploma or degree in a field that you want to be in, plus you won't be working your shitty job.

In otherwords, you won't be wasting your life. Playing poker is wasting your life unless its insanely profitable (someone said $10000 a week, and I'd agree).

So yeah, I'm all for it, provided you get some kind of education in a different field.

[Seadood228]

Perhaps you can use poker to pay the bills, all while working your way toward a different, more lucrative career.

You shouldn't let your current situation keep you from attaining lofty goals in the future. Anyway best of luck to you.

[Seadood228]

Great post.

Poker can be a great stepping stone.

[The Yugoslavian]

[ QUOTE ]
Okay, it was around that and for a couple of years now I think about it. It seemed a very long time.

Lori

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd take Giga up on his offer if I was you.

/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Yugoslav

[The Yugoslavian]

[ QUOTE ]
my average check is 300$ for 2 weeks, which is roughly 150 a week. its not easy. i live in davenport, iowa.

[/ QUOTE ]

You can probably make more living in Giga's dumpster. Goodness. $150/week in the OC will *maybe* buy you a cup of coffee each day. The toilet paper here costs $150/week -- $200/week if you've been eating chili.

Yugoslav

P.S. This is intentionally dripping with sarcasm. And frankly, I'm at the *very* bottom rung of the OC wealth ladder so I shouldn't be talking.
Yugoslav

[bones]

Johnny, I don't know if you read the psychology forum, but please give it a look before considering poker as a "career."

It's been my experience that often the money gained isn't worth the anguish of a bad run when rent/dinner is on the line. Financially speaking, it's certainly feasable to make a decent living playing SNGs well. But it takes a certain kind of mentality to withstand the ups and downs that WILL happen. No matter how low you play, no matter how good you are, you WILL lose a lot. Your emotional make up has as much, if not more to do whether you can do this for a living as your ROI.

Best of luck.

[lacky]

I guess I have more gamble in me in this regard. ( not surprising, as I do do this full time) My opinion is, you have a crap job that you can replace in a week, most likely at the same place if you are a good employee. (a non idiot type that will show when he's supossed too and work for cheap is hard to find) When the time comes just give plenty of notice, tell them what your gonna try and say you'll probably be back. Save up 50 buy-ins and 2 months pay and go for it. If it all falls apart and you drop to one month pay go get your crappy job back.

Not taking a chance at something better when you have next to nothing to lose is playing way to tight. No reason to get blinded out just cause taking a chance is scarry.

Steve

[lorinda]

not surprising, as I do do this full time

I've done this full time for 11-12 years, and I started the way I described.

Edit: I do however agree that a crappy job can easily be replaced and that was my deciding factor when I did go for it.


Lori

[Bigwig]

[ QUOTE ]
Johnny, I don't know if you read the psychology forum, but please give it a look before considering poker as a "career."

It's been my experience that often the money gained isn't worth the anguish of a bad run when rent/dinner is on the line. Financially speaking, it's certainly feasable to make a decent living playing SNGs well. But it takes a certain kind of mentality to withstand the ups and downs that WILL happen. No matter how low you play, no matter how good you are, you WILL lose a lot. Your emotional make up has as much, if not more to do whether you can do this for a living as your ROI.

Best of luck.

[/ QUOTE ]

This can easily be avoided. Someone certainly shouldn't switch to poker if they estimate their income to be 100% of their current income.

But, if they could make something like 150%, then meal money/rent isn't a worry unless the foolishly change their lifestyle simuletaneously.

Also, to some of the posters in general, doesn't poker also have a learning curve? If you're able to make 40K a year 4tabling 30's full time, who's to say that in three years you woulnd't be able to make 120K 4 tabling 100's?

Surely, you can't help but get a 'little' better playing that much damn poker.

[lacky]

I understand, but I have ADHD, so when it comes to an impolsive rash decision contest I win, hands down. You win the spelling compatition though. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Steve

(BTW, I didn't even do the saving up 2 months pay part of my plan, but grinding the low limits doesn't have much in the way of swings, so it worked out)

[lorinda]

so when it comes to an impolsive rash decision contest I win, hands down.

My dour style of play has been noted over the years /images/graemlins/blush.gif

Lori

[lacky]

gotta love that top ramon, $.08 a meal, $.16 if your really hungry. In collage I lived on roman and $.25 refills of Mt. Dew

[microbet]

[ QUOTE ]
If your 21 I think its even more reason not to play full time.

[/ QUOTE ]

You made a lot of good points about why a 21 year old should get a job. Still, it is easier to explain your temporary gambling profession to a prospective employer than it is to explain to your wife and kids why they have to live in a car.

[microbet]

I suppose you can move up in the Blockbuster organization and mabye that is where you are headed, but if you aren't, it might be +EV to play poker and go to college.

[johnny005]

This is the first post i've started that has actually got a lot of answers, thanks alot guys. I can see that the general concensous is that I should go to school and get a job..... damn there goes my dream.... Well I guess i'll delete my 2+2 acount now /images/graemlins/frown.gif. nice talking to all you guys.

[codewarrior]

:yawn: :sigh:

[Mr_J]

"that I should go to school and get a job"'

I don't think that is necessary. What's wrong with taking 6-12 months out and seeing if you can make it playing poker? Save 4-6 months expenses. Quit your curent job (since you hate it) and find some part time work that isn't too bad (to support you). This will let you put in some good hours for poker, and keeps the pressure to perform off your back. Spend as much time as possible reading and learning. At the same time, look for a career you'd be interested in. Use the 6+ months to figure out what you want to do with your life
(apart from poker). If in 6 months time poker isn't looking good, then at least you gave it a shot. Also gave yourself some time off to think about what you want out of life.

[codewarrior]

It must be nice to only work 8 hours a day. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif