Awkward TT against two aggros

[DrPublo]

Very frustrating hand with TT...the stack sizes appeared to be off on the flop for me to really do anything other than fold. At the time of the hand, Aggro1 had a high VPIP (like 40ish) over close to 50 hands and a postflop aggression number of around 3, and Aggro2 is 57/29 after about 100 hands, with a postflop aggression number of 5.69 (yowsers!).

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

saw flop|<font color="#C00000">saw showdown</font>

UTG : (Aggro1) ($48)
UTG+1 ($74.55)
UTG+2 : (Aggro2) ($64.35)
MP1 ($66.25)
MP2 ($16.5)
MP3 ($164.45)
CO ($50.75)
Button ($36)
Hero ($62.15)
BB ($43)

Preflop: Hero is SB with T/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif. Hero posts a blind of $0.5.
Aggro1 calls $1, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Aggro2 raises to $3</font>, <font color="#666666">5 folds</font>, Hero (poster) calls $2.50, BB calls $2, Aggro1 calls $2.

Flop: ($12) 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 6/images/graemlins/club.gif, 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
Hero checks, BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Aggro1 bets $5</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Aggro2 raises to $15</font>, Hero folds, BB folds, Aggro1 calls $10.

Turn: ($42) Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Aggro1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Aggro2 bets $15</font>, Aggro1 folds.

Final Pot: $57

I thought about just calling the flop and pushing the turn to represent a set, but too many cards I don't want to see on the turn (A,K,Q,J, diamond) which meant if I wanted to continue I must raise, and yet pushing here with only TT into a bettor and a raiser didn't seem like the right play either.

Is there a better line? Lead the flop? I doubt I'm ever getting a better overpair to fold in this spot and Aggro2 seems like the type to play TT-AA this strong.

The Doc

[steaknshake925]

Folding is good. If theyre that aggressive you can find better spots to bust them later. TT is still too marginal to play against a bet &amp; reraise.

[Kaz The Original]

Push the flop. There's alot of money, you're ahead a fair amount of the time here, and A9, K9 will probably call you.

[TheWorstPlayer]

Come on, there is no way hero is ahead here. There must be a set, two pair, a higher overpair, or two of the above.

[soah]

[ QUOTE ]
Come on, there is no way hero is ahead here. There must be a set, two pair, a higher overpair, or two of the above.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why can't Hero be ahead of two clowns that play every other hand they are dealt and play them aggressively?

[DrPublo]

Let's say I push. Isn't this a situation where I'm only called by a better hand? ie AK never calls, but sets and JJ+ do (because they're aggro and won't lay down JJ here).

How should this affect my play of the hand?

The Doc

[Wayfare]

At money-committal time, you know little-to-nothing about the opponent's hand other than he has bet and been raised. This is a swift fold in my camp. Although, as stated before, you probably play better than me.

BTW, bad players get good hands too. The sideways benefit of being super agro is that players will be "forced" to give you action on your monsters because of your previous agressive behavior. I do not think this is one the situations where you want to risk your stack.

[SeattleJake]

Whereas I agree with the fold after a raise/re-raise, I'd've lead out on the flop with a pot sized bet. It's the kind of flop you're really looking for with TT (except a set of course). They both probably had two overcards or a flush draw. You want to win it right there.

[Wayfare]

You'd probably have to expect to take it down ~50% of the time to make a pot sized bet profitable there. Do you think that will happen?

[TheWorstPlayer]

More likely you will get raised and still won't know where you are but will be more pot committed. I think OP played it well. Now fold.

[SeattleJake]

Wouldn't you figure the TT to be the best hand here? Not betting gives the overcards and flushes a chance to semi-bluff -- a bet that you can't call obviously, without the set. Betting gives you the only chance at winning the pot, and a weaker bet would definitely be raised.

Are you really only looking for trips when you play TT? I think if you're not going to play when this kind of flop drops in your lap, you're wasting money playing it in the first place, since you're only 9:1 to hit the set, and with only two callers you're not likely to get paid off.

[the alex]

[ QUOTE ]
Wouldn't you figure the TT to be the best hand here? Not betting gives the overcards and flushes a chance to semi-bluff -- a bet that you can't call obviously, without the set. Betting gives you the only chance at winning the pot, and a weaker bet would definitely be raised.

Are you really only looking for trips when you play TT? I think if you're not going to play when this kind of flop drops in your lap, you're wasting money playing it in the first place, since you're only 9:1 to hit the set, and with only two callers you're not likely to get paid off.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree.

But I must add the notion of re-raising PF ONLY because you called 125% of the pot on the flop. If you had this mindset that you would call to undercards on the flop:

1.) Lead on the flop.

or

2.) Re-raise preflop.

The only reason to check this flop is if you had trips or were preparing to fold. Your call PF isn't bad, but if you call, you figure to have the best hand and will play strong to an undercard flop or you're looking to hit trips and will check/fold the flop.

Bad hand. Very weak.

I have no problem with folding PF if you're gonna play a flop like this by check/calling.

[TheWorstPlayer]

You are not only looking for a set. But if you dont have a set, you are looking for light action. I don't mind calling or even raising a bet on this flop. But once it has been bet and raised, you are beat.

[37offsuit]

Really? If he hits his set he doesn't get paid off? Against two very aggressive post flop players. I'd play this the same way he did. When you have this ideal situation of loose/aggressives, just be patient and trap them when you can. This isn't a strong enough holding.

[jtr]

I like the flop fold for the reasons given by other posters. But given the stats on Aggro2, the preflop raiser, with a 29% PFR, I would have given extremely serious consideration to a big preflop reraise here.