HONOR , PROFESSIONALISM and MSSunshine

In the posting written by MS in re: to HighlandsClub yesterday, John wrote this:


"I feel that I have been down this road with PokerSpot, always awaiting for the BIG deal to go thru. I would have had none of my problems with PokerSpot, if one of the regulars at the time who were aware that no cashouts were being made had informed me of the problems with the site. "


What MS failed to mention is that he is the prop manager for HighlandsClub.


He failed not only to "inform the regulars" but also failed to inform the props that there was a problem with cashouts. He still collected time sheets, and made sure that the quite possible bogus-pay to the props were credited to the props accounts without even a warning to the props that they should only continue to prop at their own risk. As the manager of those who put their trust in him, he made no attempt to come clean with possible problems collecting not only gambling wins, but wages as well. He did nothing to protect the props time that could have been spent at other casinos where at least there is some chance of earning some money.


Time is money MS! John, you have been stealing our time for sure; whether or not Highlands has stolen the money or not is yet to be seen. You lied to us by omission. What were you trying to protect by not telling us the truth? Possibility exists that you were trying to protect your own interest at the expense of the props'. I have seen no integrity or professionalism on your part, just lies and self-serving actions.


After your posting, good luck furthering your career in management with any on-line card rooms, with having upper management trust you with any private information; good luck recruiting any props who will put their faith in your word, judgment, and the manner in which you approach problems. And you write your first posting under the guise of protecting the poker community. You are such a peice of work MS.

Unreal...thanks for the info (Cant even think of why I almost considered being a PROP at Highlands) This is very useful info.....Thanks so much!!!!


Now that I think about it.....When I first applied for the info for props at highlands and the info was sent.....I got bombarred with emails everyday for 2 weeks str8 about what my decision was going to be....LMAO is this proper behavior for the PROP industry?? lol Glad I went with my gut.....


And I thought MS SUNSHINE was a good guy?? LOL

I'm totally in shock!!!! /images/wink.gif

Not surprised are you? Online roooms have many links to organized criminals.

UP TO THIS POINT I HAVE ADMIRED THE MS PERSONS AND HAVE STAUNCHLY DEFENDED THEM THINKING WHAT KIND OF SELFLESS PEOPLE THEY ARE... WILLING TO PUT IN EXTRA WORK AND SWEAT IN ORDER TO MAKE THE INTERNET POKER COMMUNITY A BETTER PLACE FOR US ALL. I FEEL LIKE I'VE BEEN CLOCKED IN THE HEAD! SCUMBAGS IS TOO NICE OF A WORD FOR THESE PEOPLE... CONARTISTS IS A BETTER TERM. NO CONSIOUNCE YOU MS SUNSHINES! OBVIOUS TO ME WHY YOU MOVED TO BUMBLEF*CK UTAH, TO RUN FROM THE PEOPLE YOU'VE SCAMMED, AND NOW YOU ARE ON THE INTERNET DOING THE SAME THING. BUILDING UP THE TRUST-- NOW YOUR COLORS ARE REALLY SHINING THROUGH, THAT WAS LOW AND DISGUSTING. I HOPE THE TWO OF YOU SKI INTO A TREE, AND YOU WON'T HAVE ENOUGH MONEY TO GET A FUNERAL BECAUSE ALL YOUR MONEY IS TIED UP INTO HIGHLANDS (LOL) THEY'LL HAVE TO PUT YOU TO INTO THE FIREPLACE!!!


JAIME

As you know, I was a Highlands prop also, and together with the others started on Feb. 18. I received three reasonably timely cashout payments in February and March and a fourth on April 15. This last was the first that was late, and the first that was not for the full amount requested. I informed MS immediately.


Four days later, on April 19, after corresponding with Highlands about the matter, and after obtaining assurances that all pending cashouts would be paid on April 30, MS informed all props of the problem with late cashouts and requested everyone's feedback. He specifically warned the props that "we are not certain that this is not a delaying tactic." There was a flurry of correspondence, none of which included the accusations you've made here, and a plan of action was agreed to. I kept all this correspondence.


Accordingly, your statements that he "failed to inform the props that there was a problem with cashouts," and that "[h]e still collected time sheets, and made sure that the quite possible bogus-pay to the props were credited to the props accounts without even a warning to the props that they should only continue to prop at their own risk" are demonstrably false.


Your failure to mention the pertinent facts is telling. I think readers will judge it a more egregious act of lying "by omission" than the false accusations you've made against MS.


It obviously has not occurred to you that MS, who is owed quite a bit more than any other prop (and they owe me $4K), has put himself at financial risk for the benefit of unkown others by making this issue public. A mercenary approach would have been to hope that the next promised date would be honored, in the hopes that unwitting players would deposit enough to allow him to get paid at least something. When I discussed this with MS, he expressed his discomfort at the prospect of others being victimized while he kept silent and possibly profited thereby. In light of this, your cheap, anonymous attack on him is both dishonest and remarkably undeserved.


Chris Alger

In defense of MSSunshine:


While I do wish that I had never gotten involved with Highlands, I do not blame MS.


As recently as one month ago I recieved a cashout with no problems. The first time (to my knowlege) that MS was aware of a prop having cashout problems was only two weeks ago. At the time it seemed that there was only going to be a slight delay, and that it could be an isolated incident.


There was a ten day period when all the Highlands props were aware of widespread cashout delays, and none of us wrote about it on the forum. We were promised that all cashouts would be fedexed by the end of the month, and chose to wait until that deadline before taking any action. If Highlands had met the deadline, it would not have been any slower than a standard Poker.com cashout.


In addition, there is still a chance that we will be paid, and our balances honored. MS is exploring our options, and attempting to get our money for us.


I do not blame MS, and feel he has handled the situation well. I would consider working with him again in the future.

Yes, I'm sorry for my part in this and have told my props this repeatly.


I'm in the same boat they are. As for withholding info, I was talking with different props daily as cashouts dragged out and letting them know what I did know. Some decided to stay, others wanted to wait, it was their choice.


At the beginning this just seemed a temporary problem, not what it became. I wished that I had not been persuded by Highland's management to wait after the last 10 day deadline.


As to props that had left the program, not knowing their cashout status and some of their tendencies for the dramatics, I did not feel keeping them informed of this situation was proper. Also, they seemed to no longer being playing on the site and had gotten all their money. Is this not the case? Or are you just grinding this axe to see how sharp you can get it?


As to when to go public, you seem to have most of the pertinent facts and could have had your say much earlier than this.


As a few of props left they were not replaced, by me, because I didn't want anyone else stuck in the cashout problems.


As to how Lesley and I handled ourselves during this we have nothing to be ashamed of. We did the best we knew how.


We hope this mess will be resolved soon.


Have a nice day.


MS Sunshine(MR)

Dear B**T, m*******s, or whoever the hell you are...you didn't sign your true name, but your flare for axe-grinding is unmistakable!


If you want to talk about honor, why didn't you mention that you (B**T) and your husband or partner (m*******s) both signed up for our team without letting us know that you knew each other? Why did you lie to us when asked if you knew each other? What were you trying to hide and who were you trying to scam?


For the record, both you and m*******s quit the team before there was even a hint of cashout problems, so it is extremely idiotic on your behalf to assume you know what we did or did not discuss with our prop team.


Our team has known for the last 2 weeks that they were playing with some risk, and those that continued to play did so with all of the information that we could provide. None of us thought that the problems were other than temporary.


For our part, we did suspect that there cashout problems by the middle of April, and while we did inform our team, no, we did not inform the public at large. To do so would have killed the site immediately, and as we were not sure their problems would not be solved equitably, we did not feel that was the right thing to do.


We are still not sure that the site will not pay, but after waiting for what we thought was an appropriate amount of time for them to solve things, we told the site we could no longer support them, AND would say so publicly. As you mentioned, we are the managers of the team. Perhaps you can understand then, that we also had some loyalty to the site not to expose their problems to the public before they had a REASONABLE chance to solve them. This is what we gave them, a reasonable chance. If that was wrong, so be it.


As for you, after the shenanigans between you and your partner, and the nasty e-mails you sent us, which you cc'd to Doyle Brunson, we absolutely had no inclination to inform you of anything.


In closing, you addressed your remarks to John, but I am his partner, and whatever he has done, he had my support. For those of you who so vocally responded to the original post, I would stongly suggest you consider the source of your information before you decide that WE are the ones with no honor.


Mrs. MS Sunshine

I have never scammed anyone in my life. I'm sure most places I have worked would be happy to have me, or my wife, back.


If I die skiing into a tree, somehow it was murder because it will not be an accident.


MS Sunshine

Unreal how some people would do such a thing. You should be ashamed of yourself sunshine. Unreal how you try and make yourself look like the good guy when all you were trying to do was make yourself feel and look better in light of your prior activities. Many people were trusting your word about this until now. Maybe you should seek a new line of work?


E-O-M

Am I sorry this happened? Yes. Ashamed? No.


We have almost five dimes in limbo, along with everyone else's. So, we are REALLY sorry.


Even though this is not of our making, we are aware what a poor light this puts us in. This hurts us more than the money.


Have a nice day.


MS Sunshine

I often read but very rarely post on these poker forums. Daily it appears that the belittling, bemoaning, and flaming from the know-it-all-attitudes, and bluntly the many smart-asses, continues to rise. Such remarks are a waste of good bandwidth, and contribute nothing to the highly respectable, honorable game of poker. Let me also say, patenthetically, that when I post I will use my actual name, as I am more than willing to be accountable for everything I communicate, which, sadly, is more than can be said for a fair number of you. That having been said, I find the attacks upon MS Sunshine to be equally ridiculous. I, too, prompted for Highlands over the last two months, but I have played on the site essentially since it's beginning. Anyone having played there had to know if was in trouble. Before proping I had received three checks and was relieved when each cleared the bank. I began propping in hopes of helping the site survive. Nevertheless. when I made a deposit I knew well my money was at risk, as is any gaming deposit, or heck, anything else I purchase over the internet for that matter, that's not "cash & carry". MS was caught in the middle, an unenviable position, to be sure. Let it be known I communicated with him regularly my concerns and we promptly shared whatever information we had. Anyone that wants funds guaranteed should leave them on deposit with a bank insured by the FDLIC. (are you sure it's secure even there?) To attack MS for this is petty and unfair. As for me, I'm a big boy, I make my own decisions, take my own licks, and suffer the consequences, good or bad. Hey, wait a minute, I lost money in the stock market in the past 18 months, perhaps that's MS Sunshine's fault too. No as I think again, perhaps I was correct originally. Maybe, just maybe, we should all take responsibilty for our own actions first before blaming others. MS is owed apologies for unfair attacks in this forum, the launching of which, regrettably, has become the norm rather than the exception for these forums.

Thank you Chris, for giving an accurate picture of the events as they happened. We enjoyed working with you, too, except that you play too tough:) If you changed that we would have no problems working with you in the future.


MS Sunshine

That's better than what I wanted to call you...


Anyone who can't even sign their own name to a post like yours...well I'd compare it to someone just coming up behind Jon and Les and stabbing them both in the back so they won't be able to see your face!


Obviously, you were a prop at HC and don't want MS to know who you are. Why is that? I don't know whether what you say is true or not, because I am not a prop there.


However, I do have a some of experiences with Ms. Sunshine so here goes.


I was also one of the unfortunate victims at Pokerspot. My loss was only about 15 percent of what they lost, but several K is not chunk change. I think I got to know Ms. Sunshine from the very first time I sat in the $20-40 game. I became a bit irritated at something Ms did and called her on it and started calling her "missy" because I thought the "Ms" referred to a female type. She asked me kindly not to call her "missy" so I stopped. The 2nd time I crossed the felt at PS with Ms Sunshine I noticed that "her" play was, well let's just say a "little" looser and more aggressive than I previously had encountered (LOL!). I made the same mistake again, addressing Ms Sunshine as "missy". This time the reply was that he was a man and his wife plays under the same handle. He told me that his name was John and his wife was Les.


From that point on I would ask who was playing, J or L and they would respond immediately. Even though I would be able to tell in a few hands anyway who was playing.


This was the first sign to me that this couple was honest and had nothing to hide even though they could have.


Then Pokerspot got their tit in a ringer and I vowed not to play unless I received the cashout I requested. My reasoning was if I wanted to play the play money games I could do that. But I play poker because I have a passion for the game and to win money, real money. That's it. I can play golf for fun and excercise. Some can't, they have to gamble when playing or they don't. Poker's that way for me. If I didn't make money at it I hope I'd have the sense to quit. I haven't had to think of that for quite some time now.


The Sunshine's play for the same reason. It appears you do to, along with Chris Alger and we all know countless others.


We would email each other with updates on the PS issue until it kinda fell by the wayside. We have stayed in contact for the past couple of years though.


I was also approached by Ms. Sunshine to be a prop at HC and declined the offer. Not because the offer wasn't attractive because it was. The hourly wage coupled with what I am capable of making on a BB hourly wage would have been very nice.


I spoke on the phone about this with both John and Les and had several concerns. The first and most obvious one was "is this another Pokerspot"?


They were totally honest and said the HC was suffering some difficulties. I don't feel I need to go into detail here because IMO, I was given honest answers. A scheduling conflict of hours was the main reason I declined the offer.


I feel your verbal attack is not only out of line but also contratictory to what Chris Alger claims.


I feel everyone's pain here. Yours included. However, IMO the blame is not to be put on Ms Sunshine. They certainly did not know this was going to happen. If they did, do you really think they'd have taken the responsiblity they took? Invest their one BR's? I think not.


I feel confident that DB will somehow make it good for everyone involved.


In closing, it's not the Ms. Sunshine's of the world, that put everything down in black and white, even sticking their neck out for themselves and others, asking little or nothing in return that I am leary about. It's people like you who can't face adversity in a proper adult manner and look someone in the eye with their concerns, but would rather sneak up from behind and try to ruin their (Ms Sunshine in this case) credibility.


KC50

Short for "proposition player". One that is employed by the house, gets paid an hourly rate but has to play his/her own bankroll. They may have to start games and when they're full with a wait, they give their seat up and start another one. Some have to be committed to play any game at any limit the cardroom spreads. Tough way to make a living, with the moving around part.


Certain cardrooms make it easier by giving you a choice of games and limits.


KC50

Hey, wait a minute, I lost money in the stock market in the past 18 months, perhaps that's MS Sunshine's fault too


Thousands of people report losing money in the stock market just like you! Why can't you fools see, it is Paradise Poker rigging the stock ticker!!!


On a serious note, here's hoping the miracle occurs and Highland's comes up with the cashouts. I think you have got about a out-outers chance though...


Good luck all,

Treefrog

I reckon..

Okay. I'm just beginning to read some of these posts.


First, I have known John (and his wife) for many years. When he was working on the floor at a live poker room I always thought he did an excellent job, and based on his consistent performance would recommend him to anyone for cardroom management.


By the way, for those of you who have followed my writings over the years, you know that I have considered much of cardroom management to be totally incompetent. (Just to complete this thought, while it has gotten better over the years, these is still some incompetence to be weeded out.)


On the other hand, there might be some conflict here. If John was employed in a management position at Highlands, that should have been made known (and perhaps he did -- I don't read all the posts) by him on these forums as he voiced his opinion on various subjects. That is something I have been asking site representatives to do on these forums before they post.

Dear Mason,


Thank you for your defense of our reputation.


In regards to us being in a "management position" at Highland's, you can judge for yourself. Our involvement with them consisted of gathering a "team" of players who were interested in propping internet games for an hourly wage.


We "managed" the team only in the regard that we compiled weekly payroll information for our team and sent this information to Highland's. We were not involved in the management of the site in any way, nor do we have any financial investment with Highland's, other than our playing bankroll.


We were props there, just like anyone else, with full risk taken. We made the same hourly wage as the rest of the team. In regards to posting anything about Highland's, I believe the only time we mentioned the site was in direct response to someone who posted asking where we played. We responded that among other sites, we had 50% of our bankroll on Highland's. That is the extent of what we said.


As for admitting to "managing" a team there, it was part of our contract with Highland's, and our props contract, that we refer all questions regarding prop play to a floorman at Highland's. Posting that we "ran" a team of props on the site would clearly have violated this. When it was clear that Highland's could not meet their guarantees to our team, or their other customers, we then felt it pertinent to break our contract and go public.


If we violated your posting rules, which we believe are very valid, then we sincerly apologize.


MS Sunshine

Why is anyone not surprised that you are employed by these offshore criminals? The IRS should truly take a long look at your finances.


You desrve as much respect as would be given a pimp, or drug dealer.

YOu have the right to remain silent. Perhaps you should.

You should remian silent, too. The admissions that you make here could be used against you.

It does not put you in a poor light, you

got caught in a bad situation.Because you are

honest and forthcoming perhaps you expect the

same from others .The problem is you are a step above the rest.

PLAIN AND SIMPLE--YOU PEOPLE SCREW EVERYONE OUT OF MONEY BY PREFLOP RAISING TO MAKE THE RAKE HIGHER AND THE ONLY PEOPLE THAT WIN IS YOUR SO CALLED BS TEAM!!! AND I WILL POST IN CAPS IF I DAMN WELL PLEASE

This is simply not true. The instructions given to prop players addressed when to play, our compensation, who to contact if we have any problems, and other minor details. They DID NOT suggest we should play anything but our usual game. There were nine props at the end, and I cannot even name all of them. We played totally independantly of each other, and there was absolutely no foul play.

For you to make this post it shows that you have very little idea how poker works.

I have recently had dealings with John over the 2+2HUT and have found him to be incredibly helpful and professional. I don't believe there is any wrong doing on the part of MS. Sunshine is this case.


I myself have money trapped on highlands, but it is only pocket change compared to what others have invested. I remain confident that we will get our money anyway, since GCS sportsbook has too much to lose.