Success Online vs Frustration Live

I seem to be doing much better in the games I play online (limits from

.25-.50 up to $2-$4) than I do IRL *in real life* (limits of $2-$4 up to

$4-$8). I realize the games online are much tougher than any I've faced live

yet I've done much better in these tough games than in the fish filled world

of the Tropicana's low limits.

The differences I see are as follows:


IRL


Many more fish.


Never quite sure where I'm at in the hand because of the wide range of

hands the fish will call with.


I loosen up some (basically following closer to the Gary Carson style

rather than the S&M style) in these games.


Make very few moves and only go to showdown with a strong hand against

fish but will make some moves against other regulars.


Harder to make a laydown with a semi-strong hand.


Online


Many more tough players.


Almost always know where I stand. Understand the strategies and plays by

most players.


More aggressive and make more moves.


Kinda puts an end to the conspiracy theories eh? Anyone have any

advice/suggestions? I've become extremely frustrated as of late and have cut

down the 2-3 time a week visit to Atlantic City back to 1. If I had the

bankroll I'd give a shot to a higher limit live game as I think I'd probably

do better than in the low limt oceans. Am I lying to myself there? Sorry if

this post sounds like a moan session but I've gotten to the point where I've

almost given up playing live.

"Kinda puts an end to the conspiracy theories eh?"


No doubt about it, you've broken it wide open. There now exists no reason to criticize Paradise ever again. Thanks.


" Anyone have any advice/suggestions?"


You should start playing a lot higher. All those fish in the low limits were really hurting your earn. Now that you've found you much better in the tough games you should step right up. But first, perhaps you should get you head out of your ass.

When you say that you're doing much better online vs. "IRL", could you be more specific? What is you're hourly rate of the 2 vs. size of game?


Why do you say games online are much tougher?


What makes a game tougher (in your opinion)?


I have played at same table with you a number of times, and would be happy to share some thoughts with you, but I would like you to answer above questions first, if you would.

Yeah, I see where you're coming from but poker involves adapting each game. Think about every decision you're making, from starting cards to pot odds on the flop to turn and river play pay attention to each decision you make and see if it makes sense.

Regarding fish, just because someone is a fish doesn't mean that they have bad cards when you are up against them. Fish get dealt AA and KK just as often as you in the long run. You have to know how to profit against them.

Last but not least, don't think that a $20-40 game is going to be easier to beat than a loose $4-8 game.

Thanks Doug! Great advice. Thank you so much for answering my post. I'll be sure to sit right down at the table next time and announce that I've "pulled my head out of my ass" and the 6 loose players better watch out cause the suckouts ain't happening tonight. Thanks for you helpful response.


P.S. Little side advice back at ya. Get a friggin life. If all you can do is respond with insults and a grouchy attitude you should probably get out a bit more.

First off, let me say I know I'm pretty much leaving myself wide open here (especially being that you know who I am but you've posted anonymously.) I appreciate the fact that you're willing to help but I'd ask if could possibly discuss via email? I'll post the basics below.


Online - Between +.3 to +2 BB/h depending on the site.

RL - Had been +1.3 until 2 months ago but now stands at -.75 BB/h


I see the games online as tougher (once again site and limit dependent) for many reasons. Among them being more tight/aggressives and pot odds become much more important (as opposed to RL low limts where the amount of money in the pot will almost always give you odds to call).


As a side note, I did head down AC tonight and finally decided to move up a limit. Bought into the 7.50-15 game for $100 and an hour later the game (a must move table for the main game) broke up with me up $188. It felt great and one of the local pros I'm friends with gloated at the fact that he's been telling me to try the higher limits.

I don't recall the Trop at AC spreading $4-$8.


Tom D

I don't know you.


I've said that I've played at the same table as you a number of times @ P Stars, and having done so, I have an opinion of your play based upon what I have seen there.


My email address is: nemg7@yahoo.com if you wish & we can discuss further.

Congrats on your profit in the larger game, but I have a word of advice for your future play, no matter if it's live or online. Always buy into the game for at least 20 times the big bet, or don't buy in. I've done it both ways in the past, and can tell you from experience, there are many mathematical and psychological reasons for this. With your win, you shouldn't have any problems doing that. Also, there is no doubt in my mind that the caliber of play is much higher online compared to live. Unfortunately, I can only get to a live game once a week, so I play online each evening and weekends. Because of this, I have become a much better player, going from weak-tight to tight-aggressive! As far as Mr. Duke's unkind words, simply disreguard them. It's so sad to see that loser continually show up on this forum with his hard headed negativity. Good Luck!

In reviewing your online v. live results, don't forget to consider the possibility of your own live behavior/tells as a factor, as well as those you've listed.

You know what I find frustrating about live poker?


Very slow dealing algorithm and no one uses the advance fold button.


MS Sunshine

I have played $4-8 there just a few weeks back. It was a weeknight, it wasn't that busy. They had one $2-4 table, one $4-8 table, and the pink 7.5-15 game was also going. Those were the only hold'em games that night.

Well before it's your turn, you push your cards forward. For emphasis, you stand and walk away from the table.

The best buyin is $1. Mason has an essay on it...

Here's another:


Rake: I played for the first time live in a year or so, earlier this month. Low limits (only limits in the room when i could play) 1-4-8-8. They were taking $6 per pot, $4 rake, $1 jackpot, $1 tip. This is in NewOrleans, people gamble, all pots were max of $4.


This rake /tip is unbeatable, period.


Players suck so bad, but it simply doesn't matter.


Mark

Though many in my live game use the "advance bet" or "advance raise" buttons.....


RH

"This rake /tip is unbeatable, period."


So you couldn't beat it, that makes it impossible. Too many fish, to hard to put a player on a hand...


The simple fact is that you are playing with a flawed strategy (you are a loser). Learn to live with this fact, it will confront you often in life.

Your post was interesting and Im not here to insult you. But...I believe your theory is backwards. There are far more fish players on the internet. Everyones a tough guy behind the computer. Honestly I have had no success online but have won thousands in live games--I too had a good experience to online poker at first--but you just wait--You will lose like the rest of us honest players. STICK TO THE LIVE GAMES BUD--I WOULD IF I LIVED CLOSE TO A CASINO


Good night

I've played a lot at UB and some at Paradise since they started NL and I'm ahead in both places. It's possible. I have friends that have beaten the limit games over the course of a year as well, some of them for over two big bets an hour. If you don't want to play online fine, but don't spew that rubbish here.

Online, for the same limits, from my experience, it's definitely harder than live! The players are better. Of course there's usually 1 or 2 or 3 bad players, sometimes several really bad players online, but there's more bad players live. For example, on the low limits on Paradise, flop percentages of 35% is good. In live play, many times there'd be 6+ out of 9 players seeing the flop (this is in Hollywood Park in Los Angeles).


I don't think anyone who has played $3-$6 at HP would disagree that it's generally an easier game than $3-$6 online.


Also, haktOne, about the live games, when everyone's loose, you need a better hand to win. Play more high suited connectors, pairs, etc... Maybe fold some hands you'd raise with, like AJo from early position. In a tight game, you can steal, but in a loose game, you have to flop an A or J high to be happy, and even then, you'd be out of position the rest of the hand.


Since the rake's higher, and the players are looser in live play, you can afford to give up hands with slight positive EV, and instead punish them when situations appear with larger EV. For example, pumping a nut flush draw with 4 callers on the flop.


- Tony

..and its a lot harder to read porn at the table without anyone knowing...

In real life games, telling a fat balding man with a leather jacket and tattooes that he plays poker like a monkey throwing feces seems to get you slapped really hard. I've had no such problems online.

Doug,


Hahaha, funny guy.


I have beaten New Orleans poker for years. Sorry, I got my quotes slightly wrong, "Unbeatable by the other turkeys in the room" --- didn;'t see you ther, gobble gobble. haha, so if you are playing in that game, to bad for you, high rake, lots of deadbeats (I got asked to loan money to about 5 people in 3 days)...and doesn't anyone there bathe anymore.


But seriously, at $6 per pot, even I had a hard time winning much....it is why online is so much better: a) Lower rake b) Not having to deal with turkeys like you and Jen and the other deadbeats who haven't bathed in a week. c) Not having the loser dealers mess up my cards.(I lost what would have been my biggest pot of the year when this turkey dealer who kept flipping cards over flipped a Q on me. Then I got a second Q, and two more Q's came; my trips (woulda been quads) lost to an moron who played 22 and got a fh. My replacement card was an A.


ONLINE YAY


Mark


PS And Jen, hehe, I have played you on Truepoker. I wouldn't advertise my name here if I were you,

your play sux. HAHAHA

That's pathetic!!

"c) Not having the loser dealers mess up my cards.(I


lost what would have been my biggest pot of the year when this turkey dealer who kept flipping


cards over flipped a Q on me. Then I got a second Q, and two more Q's came; my trips (woulda


been quads) lost to an moron who played 22 and got a fh. My replacement card was an A."


So sad to see you don't understand the principle at work here. That Q was never 'yours". Face down, all cards are the same, face up, it's the burn card. Grow up. Quit whining. Learn to beat the pigeons. It's not that hard.

there's nothing stupider than bitching about your opponents being too bad. Might want to reconsider what makes you loose.