AA - Standard or improper laydown?

[Akimka]

Stats for MP1:
VPIP 18.2, PF Raise 3.6, postflop agr 1.7

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with A/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 folds, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, MP3 folds, CO folds, Button folds, SB folds, BB folds, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 caps</font>, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: (13.50 SB) 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, J/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
UTG+1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 3-bets</font>, Hero folds, UTG+1 calls.

[sfer]

Icky. Mine eyes, they burn!

EDIT: I'll stop being such a dweeb. I'd start calling but I don't feel good about my hand. I'm not folding an overpair here especially with the 3rd dude tagging along. And raising any flop intending to fold to a 3-bet with an overpair is just horrid. For another 1.5 BBs you get to showdown.

[Akimka]

My line here is to check him when it's not expensive - on flop is i against TPTK or set. I think he will not 3bet TPTK hand and i had 2+1 out (1 for backdoor str8). So i can easily fold here to set. My line is not so good here? can i fold on turn if Q falls?

[sfer]

How can you be so convinced he has a set? 1.7 is pretty aggressive postflop.

[Bob T.]

I think Pathetic is a better word here than improper.

If you counted the bets in the pot, and he showed you KK, it would still be right to call. With any possibility that he would have played AK this way, you need to call this one down. 1.7 is a fairly aggressive player, and I don't think you can eliminate that possibility.

[ReMMy]

Ewww. Never fold your overpair heads up just because he capped the flop. Never. Ok, if he has a .02 aggression on the flop after a couple hundred hands mmmmaybe.

So many dumbasses will play AK, KQ, a flush draw etc like that. Slow down but don't fold.

[bozlax]

That's the worst! People talk about hands they hate, AA is mine, mostly because i just can't get myself to lay it down, regardless of the board. If I don't win the pot preflop, and don't pick up another pair or better on the flop, I'm pretty much resigning myself to losing.

I put one of your opponents on at least AJ, the other probably on a big pair. Even if one of them is on a pure bluff (unlikely in a 2/4) and the other has TPTK, the odds aren't with you.

I probably would've thought about it, then called instead of raising on the flop to see one more card, and then had somebody much bigger than me fold for me if I was bet into on the turn.

[27offsooot]

Wouldn't AK play the hand the same way? More combinations of AK than KK (Do you think he would've capped PF with JJ out of position?). Maybe I call down too much, but I can't see folding this to a turn three bet.

[Avatar]

ack! never ever ever fold like that again.

[lu_hawk]

What does a 3.6% PFR player cap with? Not AK and probably not QQ. I personally don't fold this but at this point I would only be hoping that he has AA and I chop.

[Avatar]

depends how many hands we have on him. very important here.

I'd need a stronger read than PFR % in most instances (unless I have 2000+ hands on him), to let this one go.

[arkady]

This is borderline clinical. This could just as easily be AKs and frankly you still have outs to just throw it away like that. UTG+1 looks he is on a draw...maybe hearts, which puts some of yours outs in question, but despite that - go ahead and call down.

[Akimka]

Thank you all for great output. I will never again let my feeling rule over my mind - in this case just big sign KK flashed in my mind and i folded. When he swowed down KK - well. I thinked i am just good player, but reality is harsh - now i belive that my fold was poor desicion.
Thank you all!

[StellarWind]

Everyone needs to face reality here. The 3-bet on the flop guarentees AA/KK /images/graemlins/wink.gif. That makes this a clear ... call down.

That's right. Even with no chance of AK or QQ the pot is too big to let this go. Your chances to improve or chop require showing your hand down.

Any possibility that your opponent is playing AK/QQ relegates this fold to the horrible category.

[Kenrick]

[ QUOTE ]
That's the worst! People talk about hands they hate, AA is mine, mostly because i just can't get myself to lay it down, regardless of the board.

[/ QUOTE ]

Play it the easy way then and simply never lay it down. For one bet, at least.

For this hand, I'm pretty giving and so would give him two-pair even though I doubt he has it, but I'm still at least calling him on this board. I usually don't have a problem with calling someone down since I always have something decent.

I'm a weak-tighty and would probably not cap the flop, but if the turn comes without a heart, I'm raising at least once. If MP1 is raising preflop on KJ or K9, then God bless him. If he's got 99 or KK, then sucks to be me.

And now that I look at it a second more, I'd feel stupid not capping that flop, and if UTG+1 hits whatever draw he is on, then I'll be happy to buy him a beer as I tell him my bad-beat story because I know I had his ass at least 2 to 1.

[Zetack]

I'm not sure if this is a joke response or not but if its serious, wow.

[ QUOTE ]
That's the worst! People talk about hands they hate, AA is mine, mostly because i just can't get myself to lay it down, regardless of the board.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good. If you never folded pocket Aces it would be less of a mistake then folding too much.

You hate Aces? No starting hand wins more frequently or wins more per hand or wins more overall. Hey feel free to hate whatever hand you want but recognize that your being both irrational and a bad poker player.

[ QUOTE ]
If I don't win the pot preflop, and don't pick up another pair or better on the flop, I'm pretty much resigning myself to losing.

[/ QUOTE ]

Um....what? I had aces 328 times in 2004. I won almost exactly 78 percent of the time with them. 78 Effin percent!!! Ok, I have no idea how many of those times my Aces got better, but I can assure you it didn't approach 78 percent of the time.

[ QUOTE ]
I put one of your opponents on at least AJ, the other probably on a big pair. Even if one of them is on a pure bluff (unlikely in a 2/4) and the other has TPTK, the odds aren't with you.

[/ QUOTE ]

If one of them is on a pure bluff he has to hit runner runner to beat you--I forget the odds of that--maybe 4 percent of the time? and if the other has TPTK he has two outs to beat you--about once every 12 times he'll hit it. You couldn't be a more prohibitive favorite in this scenario... Oh, I get it, you really were joking weren't you?

[ QUOTE ]
I probably would've thought about it, then called instead of raising on the flop to see one more card, and then had somebody much bigger than me fold for me if I was bet into on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

wow.


--Zetack