Tell me again why this is horrid.

[JerseyTom]

Explain it to me like I'm a 5-year-old, please...

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: JerseyTom is UTG with K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
<font color="#CC3333">JerseyTom raises</font>, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 folds, MP3 calls, CO folds, Button folds, <font color="#CC3333">SB 3-bets</font>, BB calls, <font color="#CC3333">JerseyTom caps</font>, MP1 calls, MP3 calls, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: (20 SB) 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, BB folds, <font color="#CC3333">JerseyTom raises</font>, MP1 folds, MP3 folds, <font color="#CC3333">SB 3-bets</font>, JerseyTom folds.


Final Pot: 12.50 BB

[DataMiner]

You're drawing to two outs at best. You have no backdoor draws. You're getting 25:1 to call the 3-bet, but even if you hit, you may be losing to a set of aces. And you may only have one out if he has AK. Folding is fine.

[JerseyTom]

OK, thanks Miner. I'll sleep better now...

[JoshuaD]

Huh.

Don't be afraid of a set of aces. You've got the odds to call and hit your kings, call. There's always the chance an overzealous QQ or JJ check behind you on the turn.

Check/fold the turn UI.

[JEM7VSBL]

folding to the 3bet here is fine. if SB holds any ace here, you're way behind. this is a case where you're raising for information, per se...

[TripleH68]

You are getting 25:1 to call the flop 3-bet. The only hand you are drawing dead to is AA. Given the line you might could peel one off and fold the turn unimproved.

[me454555]

Theres 26sbs in the pot and your drawing to 2 outs. This is an easy call on the flop. Fold the turn if you don't improve but the pot is WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYY to big to toss your hand here.

Your drawing dead to only 1 hand, AA. Could sb be 3 beting you with AK? yes, AQs? possibly, AQo? maybe, AJs? outside chance but against all of them your drawing live. Against AK your drawing to 1 out but AQ and AJ make it profitable to at least call the flop.

[mmbt0ne]

Twice now I've read this. He's not drawing dead to AA. He would have to catch runner-runner K's, but that's a LOT better than drawing dead.

[SCfuji]

see the turn, fold unimproved.

[me454555]

Was this post serious or joking? I know hes not drawing dead to AA but since the chances of catching running kings are 800:1 against, he's practically drawing dead.

On top of that, its going to be extremely expense when he hits one king but not the other that hes essentially drawing dead against AA b/c drawing against AA is a loosing proposition in the long run.

[private joker]

I'm surprised no one mentioned just calling the flop instead of raising. I don't like this "raising for information" crap in this spot. With the PF action, Villain is betting into us with an ace on the board. It's the one card we didn't want to see with pocket kings. So he's probably got an ace. But maybe he's got QQ. I'm not ready to fold to one bet. But raising is chip-spewing.

In these standard way ahead/way behind scenarios (if Villain has an ace, Hero is drawing to 2 outs, if Villain doesn't have an ace, Hero is a huge favorite), calling in position extracts the most when Villain is behind, and loses the least when Hero is behind.

[chesspain]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm surprised no one mentioned just calling the flop instead of raising. I don't like this "raising for information" crap in this spot. With the PF action, Villain is betting into us with an ace on the board. It's the one card we didn't want to see with pocket kings. So he's probably got an ace. But maybe he's got QQ. I'm not ready to fold to one bet. But raising is chip-spewing.

In these standard way ahead/way behind scenarios (if Villain has an ace, Hero is drawing to 2 outs, if Villain doesn't have an ace, Hero is a huge favorite), calling in position extracts the most when Villain is behind, and loses the least when Hero is behind.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would like your advice better if it were headsup. However, in a large pot with two players still to act on this draw-heavy board, I want to raise to try drive out the two players behind me. Hero is probably not in a "way ahead or way behind" scenario. He is most likely in a "somewhat ahead or way behind" scenario. Consequently, I see this as a raise or fold situation.

[private joker]

[ QUOTE ]


I would like your advice better if it were headsup. However, in a large pot with two players still to act on this draw-heavy board, I want to raise to try drive out the two players behind me.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oops, my bad. I read the flop that the other 2 players folded, but didn't see it was because Hero raised. That's a good reason to raise. But when it gets capped PF with 2 loosey gooseys along for the ride, sometimes they fold anyway if they don't hit the flop. Granted, a raise makes sure they do. Given the circumstances here, I guess Hero's line is good.

[chesspain]

[ QUOTE ]
But when it gets capped PF with 2 loosey gooseys along for the ride, sometimes they fold anyway if they don't hit the flop. Granted, a raise makes sure they do.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know if I agree that typical loosies fold for one bet in a 23SB pot very often. However, a raise here by Hero invokes the spirit of TOP (i.e. making incorrect decisions), in that whereas gutshots and five-outers still have the odds to coldcall, many players with those draws will look at that board and see the raise and say "Egads!, I'm outta here!"