Tell me the secret.

Warning!: The ideas in the following post maybe a repeat of other posts by other players. IMHO, it worth re-addressing.


I've read it here a thousand times. The Paradise Poker bad runs are killers. Makes you want to quit all together. At least on-line games. I could go on and on about how bad it's been for me, my bad-beats, yada, yada, yada... but I don't want to bore you all. All I can say is it does make you think that the game is fixed to beat you. But it's really hard to prove that. And why? If the solid/tight-aggressives get the worst of it on Paradise, who gets the best of it? Is the software designed so the fool-hearty player, who plays every ace and any two cards that can make a flush or a str (regardless of position), wins and takes all the money from the good players? How? Why? That's silly.

I read here about players seeing unusual flops and runners that occur "too often". I've seen amazing rushes that can put the rest of the players (even the great ones)on tilt. I've had rushes myself that seemed ridiculous. Short runs of super starters...6 or seven in a row. (AA, JJ, AKo, AKs, QQ, AA, KK) and winning all of them. This has occurred more than once. I know, I know...why complain about good starters. I'm not complaining, I'm just saying it's weird. I've also had the rush of super starters and LOST all of them to junk. Evens out, I guess. I've seen more 4 of a kinds, and str-flushes then seemingly possible. Of course, it appears sometimes like every three-flush on the board makes someone a flush, and ever pair makes a 3-kind or a boat. The good runs can be phenomenal, and the bad ones are devastating.


I have a theory (I'm not the first, I know):

Game speed. (period)

The games are SO MUCH faster. The lag times between hands are nothing compared to live action. There are no deck changes, no fills, no live shuffles. Also there are no floor calls, no arguments that delay the game...NOTHING. The only delays are bad connections or people playing two games. The occasional chatty loser who can't type very fast and holds up the game to astound us with his profound words.


Ok, what about "zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz". You impatient fool! and you call yourself a poker player. It is ridiculous to be annoyed to have to wait a whole 30 seconds for someone to act. Go to the casino and remind yourself on how long the game actually takes! Who ever heard of 120+ hands an hour. How can you play your normal game that way. You can't. You must adjust for the high speed, bottom line. I have no real suggestions for this, I've been thinking about it, but I don't know for sure what adjustments should be made.


I know there are those out there who have the correct answer. There are successful on-line players who know the secret. I've seen posts with suggestions, but no true theory to back it up. Short sessions sounds reasonable. Frequent table changes sounds good too. What about image, bluffing frequency? Keeping notes? The players change at the table so often it's hard to keep track. It's also harder to remember what a player did in the past or how he/she played with only a name there. No face, no voice or clothing to remind you of your perception of that player. There are a lot of quality players and less fish which makes it hard too. I guess quitting is the best idea of all. Saves a lot of grief. But, I wouldn't have written all this [trash] if I were considering quitting. It's a challenge to beat this on-line style game and I want to figure out how, not quit!


Lost in Paradise,

AMD

If you want to win online the most important skill IMO is: FOCUS, FOCUS, FOCUS (as Andy Fox always says about live, but it applies even more to online IMO).


To achieve this I take fixed breaks every 45 minutes, dont surf the internet, constantly watch hands, also when I'm not in them, take notes etc etc. I quit or take a break when my focus diminishes.


I discovered that when I was running bad my focus also diminished. I think that reinforced my bad streak, since I was for instance making calls where I should have folded if I knew my opponent (and I would have known them if I were focused). This loss of focus reinforced tilt. I think it's all related to focus. When you lose your focus, you lose your money, although it seems harmless when running good, it's a disaster when running bad.


Regards

That is the whole "weird hands" thing in a nutshell.

Nice post, Ikke.


The "secret" to win on-line is FOCUSING on the game.


I played several times on-line having good streaks and losing streaks and I'm still losing. Why?


1- I played without attention to the board only considering my starting hand. Classic example: in a "fool" table when I started with AK, board containing a KIng, turn an x card no flushes no straight possible and facing a raise with 2 callers. THis was a clear fold. Conversely I called.(1 player had a set and another 2 pairs on the turn). BUt if I folded I would have saved 2 bets. And I played bad in this fashion many many times complaining the cards distribution, of course!


2- At least at Paradise, tables have a high variance of competitors level. Once you play in a "take my money table" once you have the bad luck to play with the best players (if you don't know them).


3- Players on-line, despite of what I read in this forum, are VERY GOOD. Probably because I have good results in live tables doesn't mean I'm facing poor players on-line. When we describe a live table we could say "loose table with 2-3 very good players in it". ON-line, when involved in a hand, we don't pay much attention if we are playing vs 2 good players or vs 2 weak ones. WE always assume they belong in the second category (Probably in our unconscieous something works...)


4- Difficult to catch tells. "Flashing ovals" and "click the button" in a very high speed: all we noticed for hours on the tables is that. Take a booklet of bad and good players doesn't work well: players change in a fast rate and their names change continuosly, maybe except at 20-40 HE, 10-20 STUD or some 10-20 game.


5- When we start with a good hand (after waiting several no-playable hands) WE FEEL OURSELVES THE WINNERS OF THE POT. WRONG! WE have to play accordingly to the board or to the other cards dealt. Very frequently a player wait (and play) the river card even if he well knows he has been beaten just to show 2 aces or another top starting hand (PLease Paradise cancel the show losing hand option!)


6- The money we are playing is a minuscule sum below our name: it's easy to push a button to throw the chips. IN live table when involved with a marginal hand and want to make a call (marginal) not having the exact sum we don't change the big chip and WE FOLD! This is EARNED MONEY!!!!. On-line we have just to click a button to donate bucks.


7- When I lose a streak of pots the fault is due to the card distribution and not to my (probable) poor play and my EGO is satisfied. WRONG!


8- On-line we assume someone is bluffing us at a higher rate than live games. WRONG! THis happened in the past but now almost all the players (when not on tilt) changed their fashion of play and don't bluff very much (they noticed bluffs work too little) A frequent call (or many calls) suspecting a bluff work very little on-line. If a player bluffs me I have many hours to wait him with a good hand and make more money than I could have won in the pots I called earlier.


I've finished to annoy you but studying the points I mentioned I'm recovering the money lost and I hope some loser (but it seems there are no losers here except the poster..) takes some help.


Just my poor opinion, Marco

"ON-line, when involved in a hand, we don't pay much attention if we are playing vs 2 good players or vs 2 weak ones. WE always assume they belong in the second category (Probably in our unconscieous something works...) "


Good point. In the past I was certainly guilty of that. I think it's mainly because it's easy to pick out the bad ones, but it's hard to pick out the solid ones and get info about their play. This makes it easier to assume that they're just tight players. Be very careful with that!


"When we start with a good hand (after waiting several no-playable hands) WE FEEL OURSELVES THE WINNERS OF THE POT. WRONG!"


Another very good point. To speak Tommy's words: it's called Entitlement Decease. He wrote a terific post about that on the general forum some time ago. I have the printed version :-)


"When I lose a streak of pots the fault is due to the card distribution and not to my (probable) poor play and my EGO is satisfied. WRONG!"


In poker there's no place for ego IMO. Probably everyone still has it, but the better ones reduced it to the minimum. I like what Phillips said about it in "Zen and the Art of Poker". Pro pokerplayers still have a losing session 1 out of 3 times on average. Now suppose you walk through a door and 2 of the 3 times you're treated with all royalty and everything you need. But 1 of 3 times you get beaten up. How would you walk through that door? With humility.


"I've finished to annoy you but studying the points I mentioned I'm recovering the money lost and I hope some loser (but it seems there are no losers here except the poster..) takes some help"


You certainly didnt annoy me, and I think you're points are valuable (for everyone, not just losing players). Good luck in the games (and the rest ofcourse).


Regards

Thanks for your analysis. It is very true. And, thanks for the loser comment...I plead guilty.


-AMD


PS If you're the same "Marco" at PP, I've played you many times. I have you marked as only "good". You need to work on that, lol

Good point!

Hmmm...if you marked marco as merely good you might want to work on your assesment of people. Marco is Chris Alger (I think I can say that, because he has said it a few times before himself).


Regards

nt