QTs in the SB.

[bisonbison]

MP3 is very loose and very aggro. Let's work through this street by street.

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is SB with T/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 raises</font>, CO folds, Button folds, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>...

too much?

[Danenania]

Depends on the BB, but no I don't think it's too aggro.

[A_C_Slater]

I wouldn't do it. But I'm a SSHE robot who is terrified to deviate from Ed Miller's brilliant proven pre flop formula. Go ahead and raise though, if you want to be fancy. Even maniacs get dealt AQ. I'm not saying I would fold, just call. And if you get a favorable flop he's going to punish himself by overplaying his hand anyway.

[Danenania]

Speaking of which, any read on the BB?

[chesspain]

"I know that you're pretty--but you're still only QTs, and I need a hand with good showdown value. Don't worry, though, you'll meet the right player someday who'll take you out for more than a quickie."

[mantasm]

I think a call is better than a raise. You're probably behind any A, K or pair and you probably don't want to be reraised.

[helpmeout]

Just making things difficult for yourself if you miss the flop.

Just call QTs isnt a showdown hand, reraise with a good ace or PP.

[James282]

This is only good if you have the ability to bet the flop and turn pretty much regardless of the board if shown no resistance. You will usually have to fire a river bet too against these types, as your hand has no showdown value unimproved and you can't really induce a bluff. But if you can fire and fire and fire I think it's ok.
-James

[BottlesOf]

I think probably. Unless you have a read that he's weak or an opponent of Cinnamonwind. You only have $1 invested in the pot, let's not go crazy.

[nothumb]

I think this is probably going to be the least interesting street of this hand. I wouldn't do this often, but whatever. I think it's okay now and then, all sorts of meta-game considerations in play here, and it's not that big a difference... so... flop please.

NT

[A_C_Slater]

I retract my earlier statement. I thought you were in BB. I insta muck pre flop. Especially since at 3/6 you have to complete 2/3 instead of 1/2. And even then I would fold.

[bdk3clash]

I call and see a flop. If this were live, I'd say "Let's gamble!"

[Trix]

Unless BB is very loose, then it´s fine.

[Cerril]

If he's bad enough that your reraise wouldn't slow him down at all I think you have value in potbuilding and whatever isolation you can manage

Most players, even LAGgy ones, will usually slow down a lot if three bet preflop and then shown aggression on the flop (provided you're ahead). Most also fall between the two extremes of folding when they don't connect with a flop raising hand and going aggro when they don't connect with a flop raising hand. If you can peg him for either type you can punish him by 3-betting the flop and taking the appropriate actions postflop. Otherwise I would rather just call and let it go.

[bisonbison]

Whew, forgot I posted this. Let's see: the BB was very tight and would likely fold anything non-premium if I 3-bet.

As for working it through street by street: that's stupid, and influenced by my just getting home from a bar when I posted this.

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is SB with T/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="#666666">5 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 raises</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP3 calls.

Flop: (7 SB) T/images/graemlins/spade.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP3 calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) K/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 raises</font>, Hero calls.

River: (8.50 BB) T/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks...

[sthief09]

even against a LAG I don't love the 3-bet. QT doesn't have such great high card power and at 3/6 you're basically putting in 3 SB even thogh you're in the SB. you're also out of position. I wouldn't mind mucking it there. ask yourself, "would I 3-bet this on the button?" I assume the answer is no so I muck

I think the recipe for success against a laggy player is to have position and big or paired cards

[sthief09]

how bout a river bet?

EDIT: I change my mind. betting accomplishes nothing. he won't check behind. I check-raise

[bisonbison]

That's my thought too. 1 or 2 not 0 or 3.

By the way, I checked with the intention of calling.

[sthief09]

[ QUOTE ]
That's my thought too. 1 or 2 not 0 or 3.

By the way, I checked with the intention of calling.

[/ QUOTE ]


that was my initial thought, but if this guy's aggressive, I don't think it'll be 0 very often. I think you're ahead enough to check-raise. even a LAG will only raise a river bet with a better hand (whether it's better trips, a boat, or a frush)

I'd also check-call the turn. even if he takes a free card, which he won't, there's not much he can catch on you. an A makes you a straight. I think I'd let him do the betting for me. you have lots of outs if behind and calling 2 bets on the turn with a pair of tens isn't so great

[scrub]

3-betting with Q high when it will get to showdown sucks.

scrub

[Octopus]

I prefer betting to c/c. I think c/r is too much; he might not even call the raise if he is behind and he will likely 3-bet if he is ahead. The river will scare even a LAG (unless he has at least a straight).

[StellarWind]

[ QUOTE ]
too much?

[/ QUOTE ]
Much too much. You need showdown value in this situation. What are you going to do if you miss the flop? Start betting and hope a LAG folds A-high?

You've really picked the wrong opponent for this. LAGs play back at you when they should be folding. Except that's exactly the right thing to be doing against Q-high. You are playing into his strength.

[James282]

[ QUOTE ]
That's my thought too. 1 or 2 not 0 or 3.

By the way, I checked with the intention of calling.

[/ QUOTE ]

You checked with the intention of calling? Crazy talk. If that's the case than this isn't the type of lag that you want to three-bet QTs with. I would probably be bet-threebetting this river or check-raising it, check-calling in a distant last place.
-James

[StellarWind]

I think check-calling the river is fine. You're behind an awful lot of stuff at this point. Sounds like he will bet almost as much as he calls. Check-calling should get your bet in without exposing you to a raise by a big hand.

[Mike Gallo]

too much? Yes.

I like to call and check raise on a later street, since I know he plays aggressively.

[Mike Gallo]

I think a call is better than a raise. You're probably behind any A, K or pair and you probably don't want to be reraised

An overaggressive opponent does not need any of the above to raise with.

[Mike Gallo]

I call and see a flop. If this were live, I'd say "Let's gamble!"

LOL, I would say the same exact thing, lets gamble.

[Mike Gallo]

For the river I would have bet and called a raise. I do not want to check raise and have to call a reraise to see a K /images/graemlins/heart.gif5 /images/graemlins/heart.gif flush /images/graemlins/smirk.gif.

[bicyclekick]

Gross 3-bet pre-flop.

I'd call here but wouldn't hate a fold though.

[helpmeout]

I check the turn and let him bluff.

I also check/raise the river, if he had a flush draw he'd surely raise you on the flop.

AQ would 3bet you preflop, so I'd only be worrying about Q9 but then again he'd raise the flop most times unless he was a thinking LAG.

[Joe Tall]

Let's work through this street by street.

Let's stop right here and muck it.

Peace,
Joe Tall

[bisonbison]

Let's stop right here and muck it.

I guess I should be flattered that I'm so often right to post these.

[sfer]

OMG, I have to get both of you dudes at the same table. That would be soooo cool.

[gaming_mouse]

[ QUOTE ]
That's my thought too. 1 or 2 not 0 or 3.

By the way, I checked with the intention of calling.

[/ QUOTE ]

It seems like almost everybody is against a c/r, though I was sure it was your intention at first.

Against one LAG oppo, the flush seems unlikely, and AQ is the only reasonable straight. Since he raised the K, I think a pair of kings or two pair is his most likely hand.

Of course, by raising you are risking 2 to win 1, but I think this guy will 1) call a raise 90% of the time and 2) be behind you more than 33% of the time. Are these assumptions wrong?

Thanks for any clarification,
gm

[Bob T.]

Preflop: Hero is SB with T, Q.
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 raises, CO folds, Button folds, Hero 3-bets...

too much?

Hmmmm, I don't like it, but I think you are putting yourself at a disadvantage here.

If I was in the BB, I would call this, and look to make a bet or checkraise on a later street. He isn't going to fold now, but he might fold to a bet later on.

In the SB, it is a little different, and it comes down to whether or not you want to let the BB in, or try and eliminate him. If I was playing a hand with more showdown value, like a pair, and unsuited Ace, or big unsuited king, I think I like the threebet, but with your hand, maybe it is better to call here, and possibly get slightly better odds on your hand which has a lot of ways to win.

[Bob T.]

Looks good to me. I guess you are planning on checkraising the river.

[AceHigh]

[ QUOTE ]
too much?

[/ QUOTE ]

Totally opponent dependent, against a player who would raise any hand he would play, who knows you as a tight player, I like the 3-bet. Especially online where your opponent doesn't play against you that much and only knows you as a tight player.