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View Full Version : An UTG raise with AJs gets all scary on me ...

CinnamonWind
12-09-2004, 05:54 PM
Now remember, I am an extremely aggressive player, particularly against weak players like on the Party 3-6.

I had just gotten to this table, and it was a total action fest. UTG+1 appeared very loose and aggressive, though I had no notes on him. MP2 appeared to be a standard calling station.

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, J/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 3-bets</font>, UTG+2 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 calls, MP3 folds, CO folds, Button folds, SB folds, BB folds, Hero calls.

Flop: (10.33 SB) 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif, 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 bets</font>, MP2 calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 3-bets</font>, MP2 calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (9.66 BB) A/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG+1 calls $11.50 (All-In), MP2 calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, MP2 calls.

River: (17.41 BB) K/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players, 1 all-in)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP2 calls.

Final Pot: 19.41 BB

Any thoughts on what the actors in this little drama are likely to be holding? Do you think I botched it up or was appropriately aggressive? Where am I and what's going on!?

Results to come when I whore out enough responses like Bison does. /images/graemlins/wink.gif
butters
12-09-2004, 05:58 PM
I'm not sure how else you'd play it. UTG+1 might have you beat, but he's probably just looking for an opportunity to get his money in. Regardless, you should be ahead of MP2 and looking to build a side pot.

Looks good.
Fat Nicky
12-09-2004, 05:59 PM
I don't like the flop check-raise. Since UTG+1 is almost all in, get him all in as soon as you can, bringing MP2 along for the ride.

Going along with your c/r, why no flop cap, perfect player and perfect situation to cap here.

Turn and River play itself.
DMBFan23
12-09-2004, 06:00 PM
I like this, although I suspect you lost to UTG+2's AQ/AK.

I'm not going to try to put MP2 on a hand, as he called 3 cold pf. combined with many many calls, he could have anything
CinnamonWind
12-09-2004, 06:16 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I don't like the flop check-raise. Since UTG+1 is almost all in, get him all in as soon as you can, bringing MP2 along for the ride.

Going along with your c/r, why no flop cap, perfect player and perfect situation to cap here.

Turn and River play itself.

[/ QUOTE ]

No flop cap because I wanted MP2 along in case I needed to build a side pot later on to recoup some bets lost to UTG+1. A flop cap would have stunk like AK or AA, and I wanted a weaker ace (if he had that) calling me down instead of freaking out and folding. He wasn't such a station that I was sure he'd stay with me through my planned CR on the turn if I capped the flop!
runa
12-09-2004, 06:20 PM
I like the CR on the flop because there's a very good chance UTG+1 autobets this if you check to him, and then proceed to trap MP2 for at least a couple bets. I think if you're going to do that though, you probably want to cap the flop and milk MP2 for all his chips before UTG+1 drops out, and you get more of the money in the side pot which is almost guaranteed yours. UTG probably has a PP of some kind, and MP1 might be drawing to who knows what.
runa
12-09-2004, 06:27 PM
[ QUOTE ]
He wasn't such a station that I was sure he'd stay with me through my planned CR on the turn if I capped the flop!

[/ QUOTE ]

MP2 does seem like such a station since CC 3 PF and CC 2 after a re-raise on the flop. What makes you think this person would fold for 1 more on the flop or any more bets thereafter?
CinnamonWind
12-09-2004, 06:38 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
He wasn't such a station that I was sure he'd stay with me through my planned CR on the turn if I capped the flop!

[/ QUOTE ]

MP2 does seem like such a station since CC 3 PF and CC 2 after a re-raise on the flop. What makes you think this person would fold for 1 more on the flop or any more bets thereafter?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well see I planned to CR the turn, and I didn't want him to give up then. There was a chance it would happen, particularly if he was on a middle pair. So I didn't put in a SB on the flop in order to almost ensure I would keep him in for 3 total BB on the turn/river. In addition, I frankly wasn't sure I was ahead. But then the ace drops on the turn and I was pretty sure I had MP2.
Shillx
12-09-2004, 06:45 PM
Yeah this looks fine since UTG+1 is almost all-in anyway. This line would be super reckless if he had a decent amount of money in front of him at the start of the hand.

Brad
runa
12-09-2004, 06:46 PM
Right...I see your point. I just thought that you mentioned:

[ QUOTE ]
Now remember, I am an extremely aggressive player, particularly against weak players like on the Party 3-6.

[/ QUOTE ]

and thus a flop cap would just fit in nicely with your image and not look like anything out of the ordinary. I'm assuming you have been playing aggressively throughout and this isn't like your first hand at the table.
CinnamonWind
12-09-2004, 07:17 PM
Results in white below.

<font color="white"> Hero shows [ As, Js ] three of a kind, aces.
UTG+1 doesn't show [ Ks, Th ] two pairs, aces and kings.
MP2 doesn't show [ Ts, Qh ] a pair of aces.
Hero wins $24 from side pot #1 with three of a kind, aces.
Hero wins $89.5 from the main pot with three of a kind, aces.</font>
StellarWind
12-10-2004, 02:49 AM
Excellent management of a shortstacked player.

Those who would cap the flop are not considering the rules. You will not be allowed to 3-bet the turn after UTG+1 goes all-in with a $2.50 auto-raise (&lt; 50%). Now you get no side pot before the river and lose an entire BB versus the actual line-of-play (assuming you beat MP2).
Chairman Wood
12-10-2004, 03:25 AM
I don't mean to get all ass kissy or anything but StellarWind, I love your posts. There are a lot of great contributors here who make great posts, but I don't think anyone is as clear and concise as you. I would recommend that you consider writing for the internet magazine that Mason is putting out.
runa
12-10-2004, 12:51 PM
I guess I'm not hip to the rules, but if you cap the flop (3$) don't you still get to 3-bet the turn? (11.50 - 3.00 = 8.00 which is &gt; 6 thus counts as a re-raise if UTG+1 goes all in and allows you to 3 bet?)
Victor
12-10-2004, 01:09 PM
I like it. I would also checkraise the turn to capture more bets from MP2 since you are very likely ahead there.
ErrantNight
12-10-2004, 01:16 PM
nay.
first of alll 11.5 - 3.0 = 8.5

on the turn:

hero bets 6

villain calls 6, raises 2.5 (6+2.5 = 8.5)

you need to be able to raise at least 3 (villain must have 9), maybe 3.5? (not sure whether you need more than 50%, or just at least 50%) to be able to 3-bet his raise... otherwise you're stuck just calling

i like cin wind mucho... but i don't think even she picked up on this, which stel wind picked up on...

and while we're on the subject, has anyone ever seen stellar wind and cinnamon wind in the same place together?!??!
runa
12-10-2004, 01:21 PM
Errant,

Thanks for the clarification. Good point Stellar.
StellarWind
12-10-2004, 01:22 PM
A raise of less than 1/2 bet does not reopen the betting.

He will start the turn with $8.50. $6 of that goes to call your bet and the remaining raise of $2.50 is less than 1/2 bet.

Rules vary by site but I believe I have given the Party rule correctly. Paradise requires the partial raise to be strictly greater than 1/2 bet.
IndieMatty
12-10-2004, 02:03 PM
This is not ass kissy.

You don't get member status until you recognize Stellar as awesome.
CinnamonWind
12-10-2004, 03:53 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Excellent management of a shortstacked player.

Those who would cap the flop are not considering the rules. You will not be allowed to 3-bet the turn after UTG+1 goes all-in with a $2.50 auto-raise (&lt; 50%). Now you get no side pot before the river and lose an entire BB versus the actual line-of-play (assuming you beat MP2).

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks. I didn't actually know the math on it at the time, as it was explained here, but I was pretty sure I'd need the short stack to have more than half a BB for me to raise, so it didn't make a lot of sense to cap the flop. Plus, I thought I might be behind, so that sucked too.