QQ in monster pot. Capped by 7! [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

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SofaCoach

12-07-2004, 03:11 PM

I was a little unsure if I played this right, then a table coach made some snide remark about my push-push-push-check approach. I don't care what they think or say, but was wondering if I pushed too hard anyway.

Table had been wild with raises and cold calls abound, but my main concern in this hand was UTG who had been playing tight and reasonable.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG raises, 2 folds, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, CO calls, Button calls, SB calls, Hero 3-bets, UTG caps, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, CO calls, Button calls, SB calls, Hero calls.

Easy 3-bet, but when tight UTG caps, I begin to put him on either a big pocket pair or perhaps AK.

Flop: (28 SB) 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif (7 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, UTG raises, MP2 calls, MP3 folds, CO calls, Button calls, SB folds, Hero 3-bets, UTG calls, MP2 calls, CO calls, Button folds.

The bet out is automatic, but should I have 3-bet? UTG capped PF and raised here. My thinking was that even if I was behind here I have a pot equity advantage over the majority of this large field.

Turn: (21 BB) K/images/graemlins/heart.gif (4 players)
Hero bets, UTG calls, MP2 folds, CO calls.

Hated the overcard and hated the heart, but bet for the same reason as 3-bet above. Very happy to not get raised.

River: (24 BB) J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets, CO folds, Hero calls.

Was this check call too weak? TAG UTG capped PF and AA,KK,JJ, or AK all beat me. I figured it very unlikely that any hand that beats me would fold here for one bet, and the vast majority of hands that I beat would fold, if they hadn't already.

Final Pot: 26 BB

TIA, for comments.

djoyce003

12-07-2004, 03:39 PM

I don't dislike your play on any street, but I do think you are beat on the river. I can't imagine what he'd cap with that wouldn't beat you unless he was willing to cap with 10 10. I can't see him capping with AJ or A10 unless they were suited and he's loose, which you say he isn't. That being said you have to at least call the river pot because the pot is massive and you only have to win 1 out of 25 times for it to be worthwhile.

gamblore99

12-07-2004, 03:45 PM

The bet out is automatic, but should I have 3-bet? UTG capped PF and raised here. My thinking was that even if I was behind here I have a pot equity advantage over the majority of this large field.

I agree. Also if UTG is a smart player, he probably feels the same way and maybe thats why he capped with TT or 99.

On the river It looks like your beat. But I think its worth a call, cause the pot is so juciy. mmm pot

kendal14

12-07-2004, 03:53 PM

I like your play on all streets. I also think you are beat if the TAg wasn't doing something completey un-TAg like. I'm guessing AK without a heart, thus the slow down on the turn especially your 3 bet on the flop.

Aces McGee

12-07-2004, 04:48 PM

[ QUOTE ]
The bet out is automatic, but should I have 3-bet? UTG capped PF and raised here. My thinking was that even if I was behind here I have a pot equity advantage over the majority of this large field.

[/ QUOTE ]

I probably wouldn't 3 bet this flop if the UTG is tight, but regardless of whether or not 3betting is correct here, having a pot equity advantage over the majority of the field is not a good reason to 3bet. If you are behind anyone, you are way behind, with very few cards that catch you up. If you are behind one player but ahead of the majority, all your 3 bet does is make more money for him.

-McGee

BigBaitsim (milo)

12-07-2004, 05:16 PM

I like your play. I figured you should be beaten based on the action, but table coaches usually focus their ire on winners they think are undeserving. Nice hand.

MoreWineII

12-07-2004, 05:28 PM

One thing I've noticed is common with table coaches is that they tend to be very ABC-like players. Bet if you have it, check when you don't.

Raising for a free turn card, trapping the field for multiple bets, using your position to confront the field with 2 bets, isolating bad players, value betting, all these concepts and more that most 2+2'ers consider basic strategy are totally foreign to them.

btw, hand looks good.

SamIAm

12-07-2004, 05:50 PM

[ QUOTE ]
should I have 3-bet? UTG capped PF and raised here. My thinking was that even if I was behind here I have a pot equity advantage over the majority of this large field.

[/ QUOTE ]I don't think it's worth it. You're about to committ the whole world to this pot, and you've only got a pretty-high pair. (Ok, ok. You got the button to fold. But he's a fool.) Your equity is high with rockets, but not that great with queens. I'd close the action and bet-out on the turn. Your minor equity isn't worth losing the chance to scare people out later.

I seem to be in the minority on this one. /images/graemlins/frown.gif
-Sam

mike_sharpe

12-07-2004, 05:54 PM

Since the pot is so big, should you stay the aggressor and bet out?

MoreWineII

12-07-2004, 06:14 PM

It's a hard one. I love it if UTG has JJ or lower. It's poopy if he has KK or AA.

One thing though, UTG capped preflop after 7 trillion callers. If he's tricky, he could be capping 88, 99, or TT just for set value. Maybe not likely, but *possible*.

Anyway, on the chance that my hand is good, with all those callers, I kind of want to get a bunch of bets into the pot. I kind of like the 3-bet.

Eh?

SofaCoach

12-07-2004, 07:41 PM

[ QUOTE ]
having a pot equity advantage over the majority of the field is not a good reason to 3bet. If you are behind anyone, you are way behind, with very few cards that catch you up. If you are behind one player but ahead of the majority, all your 3 bet does is make more money for him.

-McGee

[/ QUOTE ]
I think this hits on the heart of my uncertainty in this hand. I felt like UTG was probably the favorite to win the hand, with myself a very close second. I've read SSHE 3-4 times and don't remember the exact page and verse, but doesn't it elude to situations like this and say that every bet makes UTG the most money, but also me, at the expense of the numerous underdogs/longshots contributing money to this pot?

Anyway, that's why I kept pushing while there were several others drawing. Make sense?

vegasvegas

12-07-2004, 08:39 PM

He looks to be scared of the flush, which you don't have, and I doubt he'd go away for one more bet on the river. tough to say without reads, I might have check-raised on the river, but I doubt you have him beat.

my guess is AA or AK with a A /images/graemlins/heart.gif
Or would he cap pre-flop with something like 87 ?

CO might have been on a big flush draw, too.

SofaCoach

12-08-2004, 08:49 PM

[ QUOTE ]
... but table coaches usually focus their ire on winners they think are undeserving. Nice hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not in this case however. UTG had AA and took the pot.